Sat 17 Sep 2005
DeWitt Clinton ‘97 explains why drunken Ephs are like terrorists.
The biggest problem with “-isms”, such as racism, is the hurt it causes, both to the target and to overall health of a society. But the other problem is how stupidly innacurate it is. This really clicked for me in a synergistic way one Saturday night, years ago, as some friends and I walked around our small college campus past the fraternity-esque row houses and the groups of screaming, stumbling, and rowdy party goers. My impression had been that Williams was just a school full of big drunk idiots, and that my friends and I were a small minority of outsiders amid a school of unruly frat boys. But as we walked on back to the quad I noticed that the lights in most dorm rooms were still on, that there were groups of people sitting and chatting on their stairs, that the computer and science labs all had late-night occupants, and that everywhere around campus, alone or with friends, there were people going about their lives in quiet, unobtrusive ways. So in reality the drunk idiots were in the small minority, though you would never know it by a superficial glance. And that is always the case — the smallest minority, if they are loud and obnoxious enough, will always tend to dominate the perception of the whole, even if you are inside the group in question.
Perhaps this comment applies to postings on EphBlog as well. Hmmmm.
Like everything that Clinton writes, the entire post is worth a read (which you need to do to get the terrorist analogy). However, I don’t buy this:
A week or two ago I was following a heated email thread that all started when someone forwarded a racist quiz that asked you to identify the ethnicity of the terrorist in various incidents over the past several decades. The “point” was that all of them were young Muslim men. Of course, the quiz left out all of the rather numerous counterexamples.
So? I guess that I should, theoretically, be concerned that the IRA might plant a nuclear bomb in Boston. There is a possibility that Unabomber Version 2.0 might send my wife a nasty package. But can any realistic version of the likely probabilities deny that, should my loved ones perish in a terrorist attack, the murderers would most likely be young Muslim men?
This fact tells us nothing about what US policy should be, of course. It tells me nothing about how I should act around young Muslim men. (Hi Esa!) But denying reality does not seem like a propitious place to start when trying to decide how to act going forward.
September 17th, 2005 at 10:32 am
The problem with most people crying “Racism!” over things like this is that they have NO conception whatsoever of conditional probability.
September 17th, 2005 at 3:03 pm
Okay, I’ll defend Dewitt from cheap shots. He called the quiz racist because it left off ALL the counter examples. White, domestic protestants have commited lethal acts of terrorism in this country (e.g., Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympics, abortion clinic bombings). Lowell, you seem to be the one with “NO conception whatsoever of conditional probability.” The writer of the quiz truncated the sample to lead the reader to the “desired” result. The odds of a terrorist in the US being Muslim are not 1. To imply otherwise is racist. I may disagree with Dewitt’s assertion that “racial, ethic, or religious profiling will not protect us against terrorism,” but his reasoning through out that section of the post is sound. Lowell, you should either clarify your comment to explain exactly who “most people” refers to or apologize to Dewitt.
September 17th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
David (sentence case) I believe the point of Dewitt’s post was to show that historically speaking there have been a variety of examples of non-Muslim terrorists, therefore the quiz, by excluding the counter examples, is racist.
September 17th, 2005 at 8:17 pm
Have we reached a common definition of “racist”? If so, what is it? Because I certainly don’t know what it is! Except that it may be any person, other object, condition, action or inaction of which one subjectively disapproves. In which case the definition is useless and stating that some thing is “racist” amounts to mindless name calling and does not contribute to resolution.
September 17th, 2005 at 9:47 pm
I wasn’t meaning to imply that DeWitt is ignorant of conditional probability; my point was that rates of event X or situation Z that differ from the racial makeup of the population are not per se racism.
E.g., Most Arabs are Muslim; Most Muslims are not Arabs.
An assertion that most [undesirable characteristic Q] are [Group Y] says NOTHING about [Group Y] whatsoever. Conditional probability is a beautifully subtle thing.
I, for one, have no problem asserting that I believe that the vast majority of terrorists (T) are Arabs (A), Muslims (M), or both ([M*A]) — that P(A|T), P(M|T), and P([M*A]|T) are all easily above 0.5. However, I believe (and completely consistently), that the overwhelming majority of Arabs, Muslims, and Arab Muslims are not terrorists or involved in terrorism in any way, shape or form — that P(T|A), P(T|M), and P(T|[M*A]) are all negligible.
I don’t think anybody has ever said that “only Arabs are terrorists” or “only Muslims are terrorists”. There are obviously and demonstrably non-Arab, non-Muslim, and non-Arab*Muslim terrorists. However, that says nothing about the overall propensity towards terrorism among various groups.
Ok Rory, you can go ahead and call me a racist now.
September 18th, 2005 at 1:04 am
It seems to me that the reason DeWitt says the quiz is racist is b/c it’s trying to get its readers to make the kind of inference Lowell has ever so formally shown to be incorrect. e.g. it’s trying to get you to say Muslim => terrorist when the only thing it’s shown you is that a decent number of terrorists are Muslims. So I’m not so sure there’s any argument to be had here.
September 18th, 2005 at 2:09 am
I think his point was this: let’s go back to my pedophile example for which I could possibly get sued. Say I had a little quiz with a “guess who the pedophile is” and all I showed was middle aged-to-old, Catholic priests. We all know that the majority of pedophiles are not Catholic priests, but if I made it my point to include only Catholic priests as the pedophiles in my quiz, one could logically conclude that I am demonstrating some sort of bias against Catholic priests. One might argue that this is not a good example because the large majority of active pedophiles are known to exist outside of the priesthood, whereas the large majority of terrorists do not hold the same relationship with Islam and/or Muslims. This may be true, but say I were to show only black priests as opposed to white priests. I do not know the statistics on pedophilia in the Catholic Church broken down by race, but I hope you see my point.
Likewise, a little quiz as mentioned in the original post with only Muslims (I am guessing they were Arab Muslims), would indicate a bias against Muslims and/or Arabs. Such a bias might be viewed as racism because what this quiz says is that terrorists are only Arab/Muslim which is not at all true. I see a connection between that and racism. I don’t see how one would not.
September 18th, 2005 at 10:53 am
Fascinating discussion… Rather than respond directly, I’ll just quote a few of the 13 “quiz” questions:
The pattern continues. Now what are your opinions?
September 18th, 2005 at 12:01 pm
0) Thanks to DeWitt for providing this information. As always, one of the purposes of EphBlog is to provide a forum in which Ephs of goodwill might argue in good faith about topics of the day.
1) With regard to Frank’s question, a “racist” is someone who holds incorrect beliefs — generally pernicious — about different racial/ethnic groups. By that definition, it is not racist to believe that, for example, US students of Chinese descent do better on the SAT than US students of German descent; it is a fact.
2) Without more information, it is tough to know whether the quiz-writer is racist because it is tough to know what his point is.
3) If his point is that only Muslim males are terrorists and/or that all Muslim males are terrorists, then he is clearly a racist. We can all agree on that.
4) But I suspect that that is not his point. His point is probably that Muslim males represent the greatest threat to he and those he loves. His problem is with US policies that, for example, disallow racial/ethnic profiling by airport screeners. He wants that policy to change, hence the quiz. (Whether or not the quiz would ever convince anyone of anything is another topic.) Our quiz-writer is also probably in favor of some US policies, such as the ones that put special restrictions/requirements on visitors from places like Saudia Arabia.
5) I agree with this point. I think that it is crazy not to use accurate probabilities (conditional and otherwise) in the design of public policy.
September 18th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
David: By incorrect beliefs I presume you mean beliefs primarily based (knowingly or whether knowingly or unknowingly?)on incorrect facts.
September 18th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
Correct. It is true that at places like Williams, “racism” is often (stupidly) defined as any sort of racial/ethnic generalization, regardless of the truth of that generalization. Indeed, I am fairly certain that there are important people at Williams today who would accuse me of racism for pointing out the SAT differential between Chinese-Americans and German-Americans (or they would if I used other groups).
But just because stupid people throw around a term like racism as a general insult towards those with whom they disagree, it does not follow that sensible people can’t use the term in a reasonable fashion.
And, since we all love trips down memory lane, I’ll point out that I was called a racist 20 years ago for claiming that the college practiced affirmative action. Note that I even agreed that affirmative action was a good idea, I just wanted to establish that it existed.
One of the Ephs who made that accusation is now a tenured professor at Williams. Alas, on-line versions of the Record don’t go back far enough to provide an easy link . . .
September 19th, 2005 at 2:37 am
David: Of course one needs to know or learn the relevant facts in order to determine the manner in which the word, racism, is being used. Most often persons don’t have such knowledge and are not inclined to gain it, with the consequence being obfuscation and confusion. With respect to the professor you mentioned, probably he is merely an example of the truism that political partisans fight dirty based on their belief that the end justifies the means.