Wed 4 Apr 2007
Effortlessly Eph
Posted by eph under Admissions at 10:50 am
Few things more fun than attractive Ephs on the front page of the New York Times (previous examples here, here and here).
Does this article provide another example?
To anyone who knows 17-year-old Esther Mobley, one of the best students at one of the best public high schools in the country, it is absurd to think she doesn’t measure up. But Esther herself is quick to set the record straight.
At Newton North High School in Newton, Mass., a Wonder Woman mural offers a role model to some girls. Newton North, one of the best public high schools in the country, gears its teaching toward gears its teaching toward a wide range of students.
“First of all, I’m a terrible athlete,” she said over lunch one day.
“I run, I do, but not very quickly, and always exhaustedly,” she continued. “This is one of the things I’m most insecure about. You meet someone, especially on a college tour, adults ask you what you do. They say, ‘What sports do you play?’ I don’t play any sports. It’s awkward.”
Esther, a willowy, effervescent senior, turned to her friend Colby Kennedy. Colby, 17, is also a great student, a classical pianist, fluent in Spanish, and a three-season varsity runner and track captain. Did Colby worry, Esther asked, that she fell short in some way?
“Or,” said Esther, and now her tone was a touch sarcastic, “do you just have it all already?”
They both burst out laughing.
Esther and Colby are two of the amazing girls at Newton North High School here in this affluent suburb just outside Boston. “Amazing girls” translation: Girls by the dozen who are high achieving, ambitious and confident (if not immune to the usual adolescent insecurities and meltdowns.) Girls who do everything: Varsity sports. Student government. Theater. Community service. Girls who have grown up learning they can do anything a boy can do, which is anything they want to do.
But being an amazing girl often doesn’t feel like enough these days when you’re competing with all the other amazing girls around the country who are applying to the same elite colleges that you have been encouraged to aspire to practically all your life.
Indeed. Turns out that Esther (middle girl in photo) applied to Williams. Read her application essay here. I especially like the ending.
I live in Newton Massachusetts, where I cannot find my tradition. People here seem to be sitting on the edge of their seats, hardly able to wait for progress. Five minutes away, in Boston, there are prestigious schools and fancy, famous law firms on every corner. This is the seat of liberal thinking. But all of the thinking can jade you. I encounter so much skepticism, especially about religion. When I seek assurance about important spiritual things, when I begin to doubt that there is any kind of divine force regulating reality, there is nothing in Newton to grasp onto, no well of faith to replenish me. That’s when I long for unfaltering, faithful, devoted Kentucky. I long for its simplicity and pace.
The people here race to work, rush home, and dash off to Cape Cod or Maine on weekends…..
I want to be rooted somewhere. I want to belong somewhere. I want a place in the world to be a little part of me, and I want to carry it with me to other places.
Here’s what I’m looking for: I’m looking for the security, the familiarity, and the heritage of a small town. I’m looking for the free thinking, the openness, the accepting and welcoming attitude of Newton, of a big city.
What is Williamstown like?
Exactly that. I have carried a little bit of Williams with me for twenty years. Haven’t you? Much more below.
My lovely wife, a graduate of Newton South, didn’t like the essay but thought that Esther’s comments on the college application process were nicely done.
Speaking of that kind of conflict — the conflict between succeeding in our society and being genuine — we’re on book IV of the Aeneid in Latin class, and on Friday we got to the most poignant part of it, a part I’ve been anticipating for years. It’s when Aeneas tells Dido he has to leave her, because it’s his destiny to go on and found Rome. And Dido is completely distraught, she is in agony, and she appeals to him. To her, it sounds absurd that he would leave her because Cupid came and told him he had to go on and found Rome — he doesn’t even know where Rome is, or anything about it, he just expects to go found it. Aeneas explains to Dido that he wants to stay with her, he really does, but he has “pietate” — which doesn’t translate really into “piety” — it’s bigger than piety. It’s a sense of duty, a sense of purpose, of knowing where you’re going, an absolute devotion to that. Aeneas has such pietate that he would sacrifice his own happiness for his duty. The final line of the section is: Italiam non sponte sequor — “I do not seek Italy of my own accord.”
It makes me think: I do not apply to college of my own accord.
Amazing stuff. How can you not like Esther, not hope that she is coming to Williams next year? The article continues.
To spend several months in a pressure cooker like Newton North is to see what a girl can be — what any young person can be — when encouraged by committed teachers and by engaged parents who can give them wide-ranging opportunities.
It is also to see these girls struggle to navigate the conflicting messages they have been absorbing, if not from their parents then from the culture, since elementary school. The first message: Bring home A’s. Do everything. Get into a top college — which doesn’t have to be in the Ivy League, or one of the other elites like Williams, Tufts or Bowdoin, but should be a “name” school.
The second message: Be yourself. Have fun. Don’t work too hard.
And, for all their accomplishments and ambitions, the amazing girls, as their teachers and classmates call them, are not immune to the third message: While it is now cool to be smart, it is not enough to be smart.
You still have to be pretty, thin and, as one of Esther’s classmates, Kat Jiang, a go-to stage manager for student theater who has a perfect 2400 score on her SATs, wrote in an e-mail message, “It’s out of style to admit it, but it is more important to be hot than smart.”
“Effortlessly hot,” Kat added.
Nothing wrong with hot, effortless or otherwise, but I certainly want my daughters to value character over appearance. Suggestions on how to accomplish this are welcome.
The article mentions other girls, no doubt chapters (one Asian American, one African American, one pianist and so on) in reporter Sara Rimer’s upcoming book (hat tip to Dan Drezner ’90), but Esther is the focus here. Given that she is one of the “best” students at Newton North, what are her chances at Williams?
“I think it’s unfair,” Esther said, explaining why she decided against an SAT tutor, though she worried about her score (ultimately getting, as she put it, “above 2000″). “Why do I deserve this leg up?”
…
The most intensely pressurized academic force field at school is the one surrounding the students on the Advanced Placement and honors track. About 145 of the 500 seniors are taking a combined total of three, four and five Advanced Placement and honors classes, with a few students even juggling six and seven.
…
Esther’s schedule includes two Advanced Placement and one honors class. Among certain of her classmates who are mindful that many elite colleges advise prospective applicants to pursue the most rigorous possible course of study, taking two Advanced Placement classes is viewed as “only two A.P.’s.” But Esther says she is simply taking the subjects she is most interested in.
Anyone with a clue about elite college admissions knows that Esther does not stand a chance at a place like Williams. Without a hook (URM, athletic tip, billionaire family), 2 AP classes at a place like Newton North will never cut it. You simply must take the most demanding class schedule that your high school offers. Also, “above 2000″ is not a great score on the SAT, especially if a lot of those points came on the writing section, which colleges care much less about, mainly because it doesn’t correlate with college grades (see Jen Doleac’s ’04 thesis). Moreover, the math and (especially) verbal sections are not very coachable, so even if Esther had taken a class, her scores wouldn’t have gone up much. If she got 700 on the writing, then a 1300+ would not be a Williams caliber score for a rich white girl from Newton.
How did things turn out?
By Dec. 15, Newton North was in a frenzy over early admissions answers. Esther’s friend Phoebe Gardener had been accepted to Dartmouth. Her friend Dan Lurie was in at Brown. Harvard wanted Dan Catomeris.
Esther was in calculus class, the last period of the day when her cellphone rang. It was her father. The letter from Williams College — her ideal of the small, liberal arts school — had arrived.
Her father would be at her brother’s basketball game when she got home. Her mother would still be at the office. Esther did not want to be alone when she opened the letter.
“Dad, can you bring it to school?” she asked.
Ten minutes later, when her father arrived, Esther realized that he had somehow not registered the devastating thinness of the envelope. The admissions office was sorry. Williams had had a record number of highly qualified applicants for early admission this year. Esther had been rejected. Not deferred. Rejected.
Her father hugged her as she cried outside her classroom, and then he drove her home.
Esther said several days later: “Maybe it hurt me that I wasn’t an athlete.”
But she was already moving on. “I chose Williams,” she said, with a shrug. “They didn’t choose me back.”
About that thin envelope: Mr. Mobley, unschooled in such intricacies, said he hadn’t paid much attention to it. He had wanted so much for his daughter to get into Williams, he said, and believed so strongly in her, that it was as if he had wished the letter into being an acceptance.
Heart-breaking. As Dan Drezner points out, all early decision envelopes are thin. If Rimer gets these sorts of details wrong, what else is she missing?
But an outright rejection on early decision is harsh! What’s the back story? Well, Esther was certainly not getting good college advice. She never had a shot at Williams and would have been better off applying early to some other school. I suspect that Williams did her a favor by rejecting her, making her realize that there was a mismatch between her resume and her aspirations. Also, this may have been a not-so-subtle signal to the college counselors at Newton North that they need to get a clue.
Like Dan Drezner, I live in the part of Newton covered by Newton North. He and his editor discuss the topic.
[Hey, won't your children be attending this high school at some point?--ed. Yes, but that is many, many years from now and I'm sure the time will pass very, very, slowly.].
No. I may be only 2 years older than Dan and not nearly as smart, but the time between now and high school for our children will be fleeting indeed.
Aidan points to “The Sisterhood Of The Traveling Safety School,” a much less, uh, charitable take on the article.
Pity the “Amazing Girls” of Newton North. Their heroic struggle to be smart and pretty was detailed on the front page of yesterday’s Times. They are “encouraged by committed teachers and by engaged parents who can give them wide-ranging opportunities!” They might not get into the exact pricey private college they would like to attend! It’s very hard. Perhaps the most troubled of these overachievers is Esther Mobley (center), who is “a standout in Advanced Placement Latin and honors philosophy/literature who can expound on the beauty of the subjunctive tense in Catullus and on Kierkegaard’s existential choices. A writer whose junior thesis for Advanced Placement history won Newton North’s top prize. An actress. President of her church youth group.”
Unfortunately, she’s also kind of a retard.
We know this because the Times, in its wisdom, has seen fit to publish the essay that Esther wrote seeking admission to Williams.
The comments which follow are even harsher.
In any event, the article captures the town of Newton perfectly. That is how we live, for better or worse.
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68 Responses to “Effortlessly Eph”
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Aidan says:
I find it hard to get worked up over this Smith legacy who will be going there in the fall. For the record, though, I found her application essay (reproduced in full, here) to be overwritten, overtly massaged, and an cruel intimation that Ms. Mobley isn’t really that smart. Or maybe she is, but she can’t write her way out of a paper bag.
Jeff Z. says:
Good to see Aidan, David’s favorite protege, following in the proud Ephblog tradition of attacking a high schooler’s writing ability. I don’t have my Williams essay anymore, but I am very confident that my writing was nowhere near that good as a 17 year old. It’s not like these are finished products who are applying to college — they are kids. I understand that in the current competitive climate, you just about have to BE a finished product to stand a chance at admission to a place like Williams (and I am 100 percent confident that I’d be posting on Kenyonblog right now given my lack of any spectacular high school achievements), but that doesn’t mean that these kids deserve mockery or derision. The fact is, at least half of alumni, probably more, from before 2000 would have been rejected by Williams had they applied this year. It’s just a whole different ballgame.
Aidan says:
no, wait:
There’s a difference between “attacking a high schooler’s writing ability” and criticizing a highly polished (but stupid) finished product. I dare say Ms. Mobley had very little hand in her application essay, and consequently, one can attack how she’s been packaged, and the patent unreality of it all (see Kaayva Vishwanathan). If Mobley had sat down and actually written an essay, warts and all, I’d be far more charitable. The fact is, she’s front page in the Sunday times, from an exclusive suburb of Boston, and going to Smith. I don’t think she merits any sympathy.
Jeff Z. says:
I am not saying she merits sympathy — she obviously is in a great situation and has a great future, so no sympathy is warranted. Smith, Williams, Bates, Haverford, whatever, they are all six of one, half a dozen of another. But blame the NYTimes reporter for casting her in a sympathetic light, not her; I don’t see her crying that her life is somehow unfair because, god forbid she didn’t get accepted at her top choice college.
And maybe she did receive a lot of help on her essay. Maybe not. You have no idea how much “hand” she had in drafting that, rather you are just speculating, Kane style. As if that’s not bad enough, you now have gone one step further, and are comparing her to a plagiarist. Who exactly are you alleging that she plagiarized from? I wouldn’t make those types of comparisons lightly.
Anonymous says:
Geez. Those nasty unholy Northeast liberals who have no “well of faith” in god really bum her out.
The Episcopalian in me wants to vomit.
SMITH, of all places. She must have gottten the diversity nod!
Aidan says:
Kaayva, before her plagiarism, was an overpackaged rich kid with no useful skills from a ritzy suburb. Esther, before getting dinged by Williams, was an overpackaged rich kid with no useful skills from a ritzy suburb.
I consider that she got dinged a hopeful sign for humanity, because stupid rich kids with packaged essays should be rejected, or at the very least, be sentenced to Smith.
Regardless, there’s nothing wrong with being an average high school kid. There is something wrong about being effortlessly fake. Didn’t you see “Mean Girls?”
Anonymous says:
“was an overpackaged rich kid with no useful skills”
Does Williams typically look for “useful skills” in its applicants? These students, though problematic for other reasons, don’t seem to have fewer “useful skills” than the successful ones I have known. And newsflash: most successful applicants here are “overpackaged.” Some are just more successfully so than others.
Aidan says:
Bottom line, anyone who could write a paragraph like this is either a stupid monkey, brutally un-reflective, or wretchedly trite. I’m glad she’s not at Williams. To quote Esther, her prose “jades” me. (pardon me while I hit shift + F7)
Anonymous says:
So you live down the road from Boston College (the school that JFK dubbed “The Catholic Ivy”) and you complain of no “well of faith”, you decide to go to …
Smith?!?
Huh? How can a person complain of liberal thinking and skepticism about religion and decide to go to Smith? Smith has many virtues, but its chief strength is not re-assurance that there is a “divine force regulating reality.”
And her punctuation is funny, too.
Anonymous says:
Stupid monkeys don’t write. Only smart monkeys are capable of writing. Anyone who uses such a crude ad hominem attack is either “brutally unreflective” or “wretched trite.”
'10 says:
There’s nothing inappropriate about ad hominem comments when the entire purpose of the discussion is to judge personal characteristics of the writer. Anyone who has a problem with skepticism (and decides to flaunt it in their essay) is probably not well cut out for a Williams education.
Also, if “overpackaged” means letting other people sculpt your application, I don’t think that’s the case for most successful applicants. I had no outside help on my app, except for letting my parents look over the essay and make minor style suggestions. I’d wager the same is true for most other Williams students.
Aidan says:
’10, this is the case for many of my classmates as well. I am glad Williams is trying to screen people that use essay services, etc. out. Honestly, the whole genre of “pity the poor rich girl” just gets old; how bad do you have it when you can always settle for Smith?
ephmom says:
“Does Williams typically look for ‘useful skills’ in its applicants?”
Yes. The Admssion Committee is looking for students who can make substantial contributions to the community.
“Only smart monkeys are capable of writing.”
That was the point.
Anonymous says:
“”Does Williams typically look for ‘useful skills’ in its applicants?”
Yes. The Admssion Committee is looking for students who can make substantial contributions to the community.”
And Morty began today’s faculty meeting by talking about this very woman (and the article in general) and what a great member of the Williams community she would have made. He noted how disappointed he was when he got to the end of the article and discovered she didn’t get in.
For the record, I agree that the essay was absurd, esp. if she is applying here. There are plenty of religious schools that would be happy to support her in her faith.
M says:
The reason people like Esther get rejected ultimately, I think, is that people like her, from her high school, are a dime a dozen. On the other hand, someone with roughly equal objective qualifications (SAT scores, hard classes, etc, maybe a slightly less douchely trite essay) from an actual POOR PUBLIC SCHOOL IN KENTUCKY would have stood a real chance, as that person would have been a real rarity.
I think that might be fair. If you have two candidates, one of whom has achieved x in a pampered environment and one of whom achieved x in an ostensibly less pampered environment, who do you give the chance?
Of course, the ostensibly is always a sticking point. I think of the Williams Rhodes scholar still in living memory who applied from West Virginia by virtue of the fact that the person’s family owned a farm there…
rory says:
oh…wow…
Are we serious? A 17 year old girl lets the NY Times publish her essay and ephblog and friends call her a “stupid monkey”. At least, considering the girl is white, that wasn’t a racial comment…and that’s about the best thing I can say about it.
I read student writing at an Ivy. Some of it really sucks. Some of it is quite good. I don’t go around denigrating them as “stupid monkeys” because of it. I would have hoped Williams graduates would be educated enough to find, at very least, better ways to speak ill of 17 year old teenagers. Regardless of her wealth, is that really asking too much–to criticize in more mature ways?
I wonder about how much she’d like Williams from her essay, but that’s not for me to decide.
The few things we DO know include:
1. We never know when a random high schooler written about on this page will find it (or others looking to see what williams is like)
2. High school students aren’t polished in many respects, even if the grammar and organization of their essays are. (for a note: my application essay was good before I gave it to an english teacher. Had I not been so arrogant a student, I would have accepted its changes and it would have read worse than this girl’s essay. We’re not so high and mighty to look down our noses on things like that)
3. There is very little reason to mock them, their writing, or to question their validity. There’s certainly no reason to compare them to actual plagiarizers without legitimate reason.
Aidan, I’m glad from reading one essay and one front page piece you can dismiss this girl as effortlessly fake. Perhaps oversimplifying her so quickly makes it easier to come up with well-written quips, but it certainly does not make you look particularly impressive. Lay off it.
Further, she never asks for pity. The article is written to engender pity, but you seem to put it on her in your comments–she has no control over how the article presents her. She actually takes a quite mature view towards her rejection, unlike you in your vitriol about her writing and credentials.
one other note:
-why can’t williams support her faith? shouldn’t williams be able to?
Anon '89er says:
You see here a kid trying to negotiate a pretty tough position; she has done fairly well and succeeded in a very competitive upper-upper-middle class high school, but lacks the (to her) ineffable hook that would get the Williams admissions committee to take a second look. She made a bad choice with the essay, both in topic (too thin, and in the end, too morally narcissistic)and in style.
I am more concerned by the amount of pressure kids like her are under in the great status pressure cooker of college applications. The recent spate of suicides in Needham, just a few miles from, should trouble all of us. There is also some interesting gender issues here, as boys in greater numbers are either not rising to the pressure or are increasingly being conscientious objectors from the scene.
My oldest child is just about to turn 11, and she already wants to go to Williams. She has the aptitude, but a lousy work ethic. I am not sure whether to reform her or to encourage her to have a really fun childhood, and hope for the best. Actually I think I know what to do: step up the alumni fund contributions!
Anon '89er says:
and I should make sure someone smarter than me edits her essay! (I am typing with a baby on lap- that is my all purpose excuse )–]sjwa77384 f+@
Anonymous says:
“Actually I think I know what to do: step up the alumni fund contributions!”
Here is a question: for alumni kids, does Williams look at how much their parents donated? Here I don’t mean anything like the Paresky level of donation. More like, if I send a check on $50 every year in the next 30 years, is my hypothetical kid more likeley to be accepted to the class of 2041 than if I don’t. Does the admission comittee look at stuff like that?
hwc says:
I’ve taken enough hits on this topic. So, I will just offer the opinion that the young Massachusetts woman’s essay shows inordinate insight into the red-state backwaters of Kentucky and is one of the most inspirational, well-written essays I’ve ever seen.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Oh, and for the record, I do not think the first comment about Charlie Rangel at this blog page is the least bit humorous.
Jeff Z. says:
Rory, amen.
But I guess it wouldn’t really be Ephblog without Kaindan attacking high school students and college frosh in the most patronizing, arrogant, and thoughtless way possible (“effortlessly fake … stupid monkey”). I guess they’ve grown tired of losing arguments to people their own age, requiring them to troll around for teenagers to needlessly belittle. Long live the angry white man. David, since you’re always so fond of Aidan’s rants, I think you should hire him as a tutor so he can address your own kids’ shortcomings — might toughen them up.
By the way, Aidan, god help you if readers of your vitriolic drivel make judgments about your character as wildly uninformed and speculative as the “insights” regularly shared by you and David on Ephblog. Oftentimes it seems like you guys have derived your deductive methodology from hanging around middle schoolers gossping about their peers. Maybe I better bite my tongue, lest I inspire you to dig up then denigrate some IM’s between 14-year-olds.
And you know, I give props to this essay writer — a lot of teenagers wouldn’t exactly jump at the chance to have their rejection widely publicized, even by the NYTimes. Kudos to Esther for being secure enough to do so.
hwc says:
And I want to compliment her parents for their fine judgement. I mean, allowing your kid’s college application process to be plastered across the front page of the NY Times is really innovative thinking. As is driving your kid’s college letter to high school so she can open it in public and either rub an acceptance in the faces of other students receiving rejections or burst into tears from disappointment. I think all college notification letters should be opened in public.
Anonymous says:
I have to admit I winced when I read her essay. I’m not sure why she let the NYTimes publish it. But the sad part was that it was so much better than her friend’s essay.
Of course, the adult part of me realizes that we are all just trying to makes ourselves feel better by ragging on some poor (ok, rich) 17 year old girls.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
Interpretation is a wonderful thing. The last time I mentioned on ephBlog that there was enough interesting on the table, that I might [be able to] say something useful– and I know I didn’t say that correctly or very well– someone sniped …
and I don’t have a plane flight in the morning to make me limit my time on this to 15 minutes, which seems to keep my notably excess verbiage to a minimum for all.
The conflation of David and Aidan and their techniques is, how might one say, “not very fine-grained.”
The pure and usually “gut’ter’al” vitriol of the “Gawker” [link] responses has finally given me a reasonable sense of the College’s reluctance and objection to online forums, (to which I am otherwise opposed), that is, that they are…
I haven’t read much more than a few pages of Aidan’s method, but I’m more than willing to consider that there is something quite substantive there, and a certain ‘way with words.’
Salon has an interesting article on the media’s selection bias in relation to issues of {women, insecurity, achievement and expectations} in the US– [[link]]
not to stray into Dan Drezner’s (perhaps intentional) selection bias in looking at the Oscars and “constantly performing…” um… what’s the adjective-noun combination we should use for the very narrow, “prividged” and outlier group Dan and Virginia are pointing to?
The College has never really seen (how) that it could control and moderate online forums to acheive the decorum and respect that is part of it’s identity…
speaking of another of the things that is at stake in the above, in whom we admit…
is there particularly anything particularly fun[n|k]y I can do here with ‘overwrought’ punctuation and grammar to offend the … what might we call them… ‘trollers,’ ‘lurkers’ and ‘passerby’ {?}
Ethan reports [link] on Lessig on the internet as “citizen media”: I can’t really tell if the voice is Ethan’s or Lawrence’s, and the argument sounds like … the same one we had when we lived a floor apart in Prospect… like the first one we had, the first day we met.
Esther is lovely, isn’t she? The young woman next to me is writing about “balls” (choose your interpretation) in Austen… and in the back of my head I’m trying to think of the best way to tell her that this is among the most simplistic and banal and trite things to write about…
… I suppose she might be …
I want five or ten words that might remain in her mind, that she might unwind to find that the novel is about so many other things, and hardly what we see at first glance today, /* — forward*/
…she might be “hot,” but I am hardly a judge of such things… isn’t that a theme in Aidan somewhere? (What about Ecclesiastes, Aidan?)…
Austen and the Brontes: didn’t we just go over this with Paresky? The novels are about space and construction, identity and character, accumulation and pretense versus… it’s not quite substance… and accumulation and pretense are not at all the opposites of {substance} — is that what David hope for our daughters? —
and the twenty-year-old to the right of me, with the red faux-50s retro heels (the heels are faux as well), with leftovers from those flared toes that showed up in Paris in the summer of ’02?
Style or substance or eph-emera? Important or “fluff?” If I were a [[x]], I could describe to you how she types …
Ethan and Lawrence: “citizen media:” the Williams conservative response — and it’s mine as well– is that Gawker (and any online forum, ‘blog,’ or discussion)– is nothing in the end but meaningless vitriol and snipe– “the gutter”
the Vandy woman is smiling– she’s turning her hodge-podge outline into preliminary paragraphs– her second molar on the upper left is inset from the front by several centimeters, and askew, awkward, “imperfect” except for those of us who delight in such detail
She’s from Englewood, Colorado; my eyes are scanning the shoes again, the slightly faded seam above the stitch of the seam in her courdoroy pants, the t-shirt, the green vest with oversized paisey print–
the print is faded. Who is this woman? Is there anything that is new here– in her attire? Maybe the t-shirt– a few dollars– the rest is second-hand, “used,” like the books.
No, the glasses on the table are new, made for her…
Ethan: I surely don’t feel I can speak for Ethan speaking for Lawrence speaking for citizen democracy… but I read through Lawrence[?]‘s examples and…
…how far is ‘munging’[*] a Bush video together with other audio and …
Where is substance in speculating ‘wildly’ about the … which phrase should I use here, to represent some of the ‘gemeinsam’ of the Gawkers… the derogatory allegations of imagined private physical affairs of a seventeen-year-old …
well there’s something there, but it tells us more about the thoughts and condition of the commenters, … why indeed (as is mentioned on the Gawker page) such vitriol and hatred towards an individual who is …essentially unknown and impersonal to the commenter-s…
is there an analytic criterion by which we might distinguish such comments from prejudice in general, from racism, from the mechanisms and methods by which the Jew or Arab or hispanic or woman or even “white male” [someone please quote me from above!] is… ahem… I believe the highly technical and differentiating and “{fine-grained}” language of Berkeley refers to this as “demonized.”
Where was I? I’m afraid my notes are a little blurry here.
The Vandy woman has managed an intro paragraph and the first sentences of the next two– she’s switching quite a bit less to her MP3 player for distraction– and I’ve played the intention buffoon from early film well enough to make her laugh three times– and made some other quirky gestures that raised smiles– though the fourth attempt at comedy was mostly a bomb– how was I to know she knew Virginia Postrel personally—?
Speaking of her essay: “This is just BS.” Her words (now we’re taking about BS). [] if I was anything but a hack, I’d be talking about threaded conversations in online forums and code, the difference between what the woman to my right is attempting to do in prose composition, and what her friend to her right is trying to do in ‘artificial’ ‘code’…
The young woman on the left has brought up a ‘game’ of solitaire… the woman on the right is procrastinating with a decision-tree diagram with the same structure… they look across at each other’s screen and we all laugh.
Austen: the damn publishers have put two women in gowns on the cover of the edition. An interesting performance: Virginia Postrel clones[?} (surely not!) -- (and by the way, all 'performance' questions aside, why is Dan {paying quite so much attention to Virginia's. . . sweaters} /* == &fn1 */ ? ... and making a point that he is doing {it} /* == &fn1 */, by-the-way?)
And of course /1/ the cover of the Austen novel is the model of pur[ue|i][l]ty and chastity… /2/ despite the fact that it is over 50% skin… and if ‘you’ believe proposition ‘this paragraph({1});’ ‘you’ are likely to be one of {those} who take the phrase “Platonic relationship” to mean, without contradiction or, um, “the distraction of detail,” mean ‘asexual.’
Or that eros and [the field of] {desire} have to do with… ['just']… the interaction of body parts.
{Literalists.} ‘Evolution[ists]‘ or ‘Fundamentalist:’ they are so… to use … so ‘reductionist.’
Surely Esther’s {faith}… ‘”hmmum,’” is there any textual evidence that Esther has {faith}, whatever that means… [{?}]… is … by no means so simple…
and… as I’m only going to give another minute to this (though I wonder whether her father was so arrogant to assume he would celebrate her acceptance in front of others)…
Can we look at Esther as an individual, and not a ‘stereotype’?
That’s as trite and pathetic as Esther’s closing phrase, but /* –END — */
'10 says:
I’m an 18 year old teenager, so I think that gives me room to criticize. Maybe “stupid monkey” isn’t appropriate, but these are blog discussion comments – the highest standard of discourse shouldn’t really be expected. It’s certainly legitimate for us to judge someone’s suitability for Williams by their application essay. After all, that’s the entire purpose of a college app essay.
I’m sure Esther is a great girl, and probably very capable and well-adjusted in a lot of ways. She writes very slickly, which may or may not mean that she had help. We can’t really conclude anything there. We can, however, judge her by the content of her essay, which is a) pretty cliched and b) expresses sentiments which indicate that she’s probably not a good fit for a school like Williams. These are fair criticisms, and the sort of thing you should expect to hear if you decide to publish your life on the front page of the NY Times.
Jeff Z. says:
Eph ’10, had Aidan put it exactly that way, I would have had no objection. But there is a big difference between what you said and what he said. Basically, you reach the same perfectly reasonable, perfectly persuasive conclusion, without pulling punches, but without being a prick. I certainly don’t engage in high level discourse on this or any blog. But I also don’t go around hurling insults and baseless innuendo at high school girls.
Ken … sweet jesus, that was off the hook. When you wrote that you either (a) had just finished reading the entire Mark Taylor library or (b) were high. Possibly both. (See, I can traffic in innuendo too. But at least I target Phd’s instead of high school girls).
Ken Thomas '93 says:
Jeff:
1) I’m spending 8-16 hours/day ‘coding’ these days, so … watching my brain find a way to “unwind…”
2) Mark Taylor was a mentor at Williams, so…
3) Judith Butler was one of my thesis advisers, so… (cf. her shared award for ‘worst writing’).
and since I can’t quite stop there:
Ken Thomas '93 says:
’10:
No offense meant: but these are pure assertions.
What do you mean by (a) and (b)? I don’t, from my perspective, have much of a clue unless you spell some of it out.
-K
ephmom says:
“Kudos to Esther for being secure enough”
I would substitute “immodest” — or “pretentious” — for “secure,” and leave off the “kudos” altogether.
But what do I know? My humble, unpretentious child only passed muster with the adcoms of some of the most selective institutions in the country.
hwc says:
ephmom:
Agree with “humble, unpretentious” as a smart policy for college essays. The instant students start trying to draw grand conclusions about life lessons it is SO easy to cross the line.
I think students pscyh themselves out with all the stories of difficult college admissions and impressive resumes and all the rest. Ironically, the simple, undersold, authentic applications seem to fare pretty well. Probably has something to do with the admissions reader mindset that crystalizes after about 2500 puffed up applications.
David R says:
I think the same can be said for a lot of things. I for one grew extraordinarily weary of reading puffed up resumés and cover letters for my department’s internships. In my admittedly limited experience, a mild undersell is the way to go.
Aidan says:
in response to several people (since I’m apparently the bad guy; people should read the Gawker comments):
Whether or not I’m being unduly harsh on her writing, I don’t think it is fair to cry “high school girl” in this instance. She got herself published in the New York Times, and can (and should) be held to standards that are commonly used to judge writing published therein.
I didn’t google her, per se, pull up columns from her high school paper, and savage them. I simply responded to her published “application essay” in the Times.
That being said, for a lot of reasons expressed above, the essay read (to me, at least) trite, insincere, and globally ditzy in a painful sort of way (cf. “spiritual things”). Plus, the presentation of the article, which was a painful combination of cheer-leading and adulation, didn’t do a whole lot to garner sympathy.
I stand by my comments, and urge people to consider this as a cautionary tale when (over)writing their children’s application essays for them.
Anonymous says:
“But what do I know? My humble, unpretentious child only passed muster with the adcoms of some of the most selective institutions in the country.”
So clearly “humble” and “unpretentious” don’t apply to you.
Anonymous says:
The whole obsession with college admissions is pathetic. Quite simply put, it isn’t that hard to get in. The most competitive schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) have acceptance rates around 10%. Schools like Williams and Amherst are near 20%. If you think that the top files are more or less interchangeable and getting in is a matter of appealing to an idiosyncratic person on the admissions committee, the odds of getting into a good liberal arts college are pretty good (you just may have a hard time predicting which one).
Richard Dunn says:
Boo statistics!!!
Even if we are happy assuming that acceptance is idiosyncratic, the probability of being rejected is still around 32%.
And acceptance isn’t idiosyncratic. There are only 2500 spots at the top 5 liberal arts colleges–1700 if you don’t count internationals and athletes. I could fill those spots just with kids from Nassau or Bergen County.
The problem is that people believe you HAVE to go to a top 5 to be successful. I think it’s driven by the desire not to disappoint and not getting into Williams somehow disappoints your parents and teachers and coaches.
I doubt my life changes substantially if I (gasp) went to Colby or Reed or Beloit…wait, they probably don’t rip on high school essays there. OK, maybe a little different.
Aidan says:
no way you get a profile in the New York Times with as downmarket a goal as Colby, Rich. As the gate says, “aim high, your goal the #1 LAC.”
Makes you wonder about the kids who swear, up and down, that Penn is their first choice.
hwc says:
If you want to worry, worry about the kids who apply to Dartmouth and Columbia. Probably never even occurs to them that they applying to two of the most dissimilar schools you’ll ever find.
hwc says:
BTW, this is probably as good a place as any since we are talking about Williams admissions.
The infamous kid I’ve written about from Deerfield who got an Early Decision football acceptance and then proceded to post repeatedly about all he planned to do at Williams was about get trashed drunk, whether fake ID’s work, and asking how hard it is to find cocaine in Williamstown and on and on and on:
He surfaced for the first time about a month ago with a single update. Williams read his posts and revoked his ED acceptance. That’s why he doesn’t show up on the football roster.
Kudos to Williams.
Jeff Z. says:
Wow, HWC, quite a cautionary tale to other posters on public forums (although I can’t imagine many, even if they were entertaining those types of interests, would be bold enough to post them in a public forum in a way that could (a) embarass the institution and/or (b) be easily traced back to them). What happened to this kid, did another school take him?
Jeff Z. says:
By the way, THAT is a story I’d be interested in learning more about (without needing the kid’s name or additional clues to his identity; sounds like he has suffered more than enough consequences for his actions already). I’ve never heard of anyone getting an acceptance rescinded based on comments made on a forum. Generally I’d say that is a very bad precedent, chilling speech and all. Although, if I recall the comments were geared towards solitication of criminal activity (like where to find coke), and were made by someone with a history of disciplinary issues of some kind, so I don’t think the college was out of line in those narrow circumstances.
ephmom says:
“kid I’ve written about from Deerfield”
As I recall, it was St. Paul’s.
And you just made my day. Williams must be getting tired of the bad apples.
hwc says:
ephmom:
It could have been St. Paul’s. He talked a lot about St. Paul’s hockey program.
I posted the update specifically thinking that it would make your day! I’ve been very hard on Williams for a parallel admissions track that is unfair to the great kids who play by the rules and that contributes to campus behaviors that everyone would like to see addressed. As you know, I’ve posed the theory that addressing campus behavior issues starts with admissions. So, I felt an obligation to applaud Williams when they got it right. I actually think that the discussion here at Ephblog may have been where Williams was tipped off. I don’t know a single alum who favors ignoring basic admissions standards for athletic tips. Most of alums have, or will have, kids who may apply to Williams and we would hate to see their spots lost to kids who have been suspended for alcohol and who have underperforming GPAs. That kind of undermines everything we try to encourage in the future generations of Ephs. For what?
Jeff Z:
This kid was a real piece of work. Without rehashing the story, he was everything that would raise red flags all over the admissions office. Wealthy kid. Suspended in 10th grade from a public high school for an alcohol violation. Enrolled at a high dollar prep school where he repeated 10th grade. Very high SATs; underperforming GPA (the so-called “kiss of death”). Admitted to Williams as a football tip. His entire admissions interaction, including notification that he had been accepted ED came through the coach. His posts were so off the wall about the chicks, the booze, and the drugs, the I-banker recruiting, it almost seemed like a bad parody. I think he wrote that he planned to drink at least four nights a week.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
Salon article: The Feminine Mistake.
Ethan Zuckerman on Lawrence Lessig on “citizen democracy,” media, etc in Help US remember these ideals[sic];
and, equally interestingly, on trans- or post-nationalism (‘xenophilia,’ Ethan also calls it, and I’d quibble on the xeno- part): The moving circus and the Global Soul.
Both of Ethan’s posts are very good, & often quite beautiful: “Xenophilia is why … [what] I want to know about other parts of the world goes well beyond who’s shooting whom and who’s selling what. It includes what people think, feel, hope, dream and believe”; and the Salon piece is worth a glance-over (IMHO).
Jeff Z. says:
HWC … maybe it was: couldn’t it all have been a joke? Although seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for a hoax with no real payoff / point …
another '10 says:
Amen to Rory. Also ’10. The attitudes some people take in blog comments both here and at Gawker are horrifying, and frankly, I can only hope I’ll never encounter such bitter, petty and mean people in real life (or at least not know it).
And as a religious student here, I have to say I think you’re jumping to conclusions far too quickly if you assume Williams would be a bad fit for a person looking to maintain a spiritual life. I find that to be the furthest from the truth. Also, in response to
“Geez. Those nasty unholy Northeast liberals who have no “well of faith” in god really bum her out.”
I just want to point out that she clearly wouldn’t feel that way, as a Northeast liberal herself (which comes across in her distaste for Kentucky conservatism). Maybe you should read carefully and not jump to conclusions.
Finally, just to note, my ED acceptance letter was actually a pretty thick envelope. Definitely nothing that could be described as “thin.” Maybe times have changed.
ephmom says:
“couldn’t it all have been a joke?”
In his alcoholic (un)reality, the football player from St. Paul’s must have felt he was beyond reproach.
I’m glad to see that the Williams Admission Committee got it right — with the would-be Newton North philosopher and the St. Paul’s football player both.
hwc says:
I don’t think it was a joke. His posts continued over too long a period of time…starting with the pre-admissions “What are my chances?” posts, through the day he got the call from the football coach, and then into the nonsense. He vanished from the face of the earth in late January after being accepted in Dec. He posted one about a month ago:
There’s a particular tone these kids take. The most infamous story was a kid nicknamed Lucifer. Cornell student who posted about his drinking prowess and how he and his friends had been drinking to excess for years and knew how to take care of each other when unconscious drunk. Several people in the parents forum urged him in no uncertain terms to get help. He was obnoxiously egotistical about his drinking, scoffing at any suggestion that his behavior was atypical. Three days after his last such post, he turned up dead of an alcohol overdose freshman year during a weekend visit to high school friends at UVa.
Ken Thomas '93 says:
While I would pretty much fully support the College in such a situation, it doesn’t quite fit with the College’s highly conservative approach to legal issues and liability.
First, an Early Decision offer would seem to be a fairly simple contract, and I don’t remember any small print about withdrawal of the offer. On what grounds Williams could unilaterally initiate such a withdrawal of commitment is unclear to me; on the other side of the equation would seem to be a rather large and open-ended question of tort liability.
That aside, Williams’ reasonable grounds for withdraw would seem to be undercut by two evidentiary questions: whether the alleged person’s alleged representations really meant what they said, and whether Williams had any substantive grounds to believe that the person, persons and/or entity/entities posting said comments were the student they admitted.
Or can I ruin an acquaintance’s life by constructing an interesting dual persona and narrative online, and bringing it to the attention of {admissions| all similar institutions}?
(This after all has happened before: see here for today’s example (and index by “citizen media”). (I’ll have to be nice to Craig about this at his Christmas party in the Berkeley hills).)
I thus suspect Williams would loose on both questions, especially the second. Lowell?
What the heck– a certain admissions officer lives less than a mile away, “just down the road.” I’ll ask, but don’t count on me to pass on the answer.
hwc says:
Ken:
We don’t know the whole story. We don’t know what undisclosed disciplinary actions may have been unearthed once the admissions office started checking.
In any case, would anyone really object if Williams took the attitude, “so sue me”?
Ken Thomas '93 says:
hwc:
Perfectly right re: “not the whole story,” and I’d have absolutely nothing against the “so sue me” approach; except that it generally doesn’t seem the Williams approach (and much less potential liability has been historically asserted to “determine” courses of action).
Going far less afield than my usual: there is something to the legal analysis conducted by the Deep Springs Trustees re: co-education, which essentially says that, in the face of relatively equal odds in any suit regarding co-education, the institution should continue its historical preference (in short: to do “what it wants.”
I wonder if that would change in the face of a concrete assault that might challenge the existence of the institution: but analytically, while I tend slightly to strongly to the co-education side of the dispute (depending on the time of day), I favour the ‘autonomy’ and ‘independence’ goals of the position.
Now if I tried to connect that to the start of this thread and David’s objections to campus life, I’d either wind up being trite and “cliche,” or as incomprehensible as last night… so I’ll go back to database calls, which (ultimately) either work or don’t. (Regardless of their comprehensibility to casual readers).
And the Vandy women (Ann is deep into GIS modeling in the next room– so much for NYT attention): worth underlining a point made in this line of discourse, that the reason I’m mentioning women is not just my own admitted selection bias… but that there suddenly seems to be a disproportionate number of young women seriously studying Philosophy and Comp Sci.
melissa says:
I don’t think revoking admissions offers is so grounded in the law. The college does revoke offers for academic reasons, and could for disciplinary reasons as well. I know another NESCAC school just revoked a local football recruit’s admission because he ran into a little trouble with the law involving drugs (arrested but not yet convicted).
Anonymous says:
First, if there are any prospective students reading this, I hope that the commentary above (and the comments about the football player and his posts) will give them an incentive to think about what they post and who might see it, and about protecting their privacy. I also suspect that Esther was a bit naive when she agreed to allowing the Times to publish her essay, as it was foreseeable that her writing would be dissected and her application/stats/profile publicly debated.
I have been struck by how — for want of a better word — exhibitionistic many teenagers/young adults (probably has to do with electronic networking capabilities/technologies) are. I’m not meaning to call Esther “exhibitionistic” when I say that as my words are addressed to electronic postings. My point is that things that are posted without much thought can come back to bite the poster.
I guess I’m more easily startled by the intimacy/revelatory nature of some postings than many of my children’s generation would be because I don’t use the technologies as much. Consider this, though: I was googling for information on a team last year when an athlete’s My Space postings came up (someone I don’t know) and I was one click away from details about drug disciplinary action against a 16-year old student I was immediately able to identify. As a parent of teenagers, I found that really creepy.
On another tangent, I read Esther’s essay before I read the body of the NYT article. My thought was that she did not have help with her essay. What I saw was a girl who emphasized the negatives she saw in each of two communities. I thought that, if I were on the Admission Committee, that would have hurt the applicant in my eyes. I wouldn’t want to hear goody-goodiness (and she wasn’t doling it out) but I would have wanted to see something that would have told me she would work to get the most out of opportunities that were given her. I suspected that the writer might well be the sort of person who would deeply avail herself of the opportunities at Williams that offered but her essay did her a disservice. Perhaps someone helped her with the surface (giving rise to what some of those above have thought a “slickness” as the surface was emphasized and reworked) but what she could have used help with, I thought, were tone and purpose.
{edited]
Anonymous says:
“But all of the thinking can jade you.”
Oh. My. God.
In high school I used to fantasize about a college where everyone sat up late at night and talked about silly meaning of life type stuff, or embraced ridiculously leftist politics, or in some way–ANY WAY–engaged and struggled with what they were learning. Swarthmore is supposed to be some sort of last remaining outpost of that tradition, which is why it is so sad that that culture doesn’t exist even here.
My theory is that we’ve replaced passion for learning with the ability to multitask and bullshit. The ability to bullshit is considered a virtue here.
I don’t blame kids like Esther, but I definitely blame the system that makes them strive for some bland, passion-less ideal of a straight A student who can quote Sartre word for word but hasn’t a clue what it means.
PTC says:
Another 10-
I read this as her slamming the faith of people in the Northeast.
“This is the seat of liberal thinking. But all of the thinking can jade you. I encounter so much skepticism, especially about religion. When I seek assurance about important spiritual things, when I begin to doubt that there is any kind of divine force regulating reality, there is nothing in Newton to grasp onto, no well of faith to replenish me. That’s when I long for unfaltering, faithful, devoted Kentucky. I long for its simplicity and pace.”
Explain to me how this is not an attack on religious faith in the “liberal” northeast?
Using faith to divide. Not. Very. Nice.
the weird girl says:
“…I definitely blame the system that makes them strive for some bland, passion-less ideal of a straight A student who can quote Sartre word for word but hasn’t a clue what it means.”
Amen.
These types of students make me somewhat disillusioned about the American education system. I’m a senior in high school (headed to Swarthmore in the fall—don’t shoot me! I love Williams too, several of my friends are going there, and I read EphBlog frequently for its smart, dry commentary), and I see such joyless resume-building among my peers. It saddens me.
I wonder: with so many of these people (and I use the term “people” somewhat loosely. By junior year, they’re more like drones) populating the nation’s elite colleges and universities…well, are we going to become less creative and innovative as a society because people are so used to following the rules, playing the game, and being grinds all the time? What are the implications of this on a broad scale?
Thankfully, I am going to a school where these types of people probably don’t want to come (hopefully?).
PTC says:
Wierd- Swathmore has the reputation of being the toughest academic school in the nation in terms of work load and demand for quality of work. Congratulations. I do not think you will find many drones there, and definately no slackers. You must be a glutton for punishment!
Congratulations and good luck.
PTC says:
I wonder if Williams will stop me from attending because on this blog I slam the town and gown relations and talk trash about the abusive land development?
Naw, pobly just for my spelling and grammar. lol.
nnhs says:
I am a senior girl at Newton North High School who, like Esther, applied to Williams and was rejected. While I take 5 honors/AP classes this year and did pretty well on my SATs (2250), I understand I am still a dime a dozen at NNHS. Most kids at my school understand that it really takes something truly extraordinary on their application to get into the top schools, far more than good grades and board scores. I realize that Williams cannot except 20 kids from the same school, even if they are qualified. The school needs diversity, both geographic and racial, which is something Newton North for the most part cannot provide. Most of us at NNHS understand how lucky we are to have all of the advantages of going to a place like Newton North. While the article captured the essence of the competitive nature of our high school, it did seem to ask for sympathy. Although it can be difficult living in such a competitive environment, most kids end up at great schools in the end. We certainly ask for no sympathy, but rather only that people understand that highschool kids in Newton face a lot of pressure to do well, despite all of the advantages we hold. Currently I am deciding between two other great NESCAC schools. While Williams was my first choice, I know I would not have been able to get into five other NESCAC schools had I grown up in a poor town with an inadequate school system. I feel fortunate to be going to one of the best high schools in the country and to have the support of educated parents (one of whom went to Williams). The NYT article unfairly portrayed the students of NNHS high school.
Also, there is no need to harshly criticize a high school girl who had her rejections printed on the front page article of the New York Times, even if her essay was not the best.
Jeff Z. says:
Well put nnhs. As usual, leave it to a high schooler to teach the posters on this blog a lesson in sensitivity and class.
Jeff Z. says:
Speaking of which, interesting article on proposed code of conduct for bloggers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/technology/09blog.html?hp
the weird girl says:
“I know I would not have been able to get into five other NESCAC schools had I grown up in a poor town with an inadequate school system.”
Maybe, but it’s not entirely impossible. I have a friend who is deciding between Williams, Wesleyan, and Swarthmore. He lives in a rural hick town where the median annual income for households is $40,135, and most people are automechanics or factory laborers without a college education. Really self-motivated students will do well anywhere.
That said, thank you, nnhs, for reminding us of the humanity of those in the newspaper article. It really is difficult for high school students to escape from the pressures around us. And college especially is like some kind of crazy arms race.
Hell, I know it is SO HARD to not buy into that—I was once like that too. Then I carefully re-evaluated my life after sophomore year, and realized it wasn’t worth sacrificing my high school experience to get into a “good school”. I eventually dropped the clubs I didn’t care about (including NHS). I took only classes I enjoyed, and learned for the sake of learning. When writing college essays, I refused to let anyone read or edit them.
And I did OK: Swarthmore isn’t that crappy (I also got into my top choice school, but Swat is giving me more financial aid).
My good friend did the same types of non-resume building things I did, and he is going to Dartmouth next year. But I feel like we are the exception rather than the rule, a dying breed of idealists.
Though I find the general college admissions (and the idea of education as a consumer good, fueled by Useless News and other factors) process disturbing, Esther from the article does sound like a good person, if a little sheltered.
I mean, she refused to take SAT prep classes for her ideals. That’s pretty admirable in an environment like that. So, to clarify, I never meant to personally attack her, and I think many of the comments on this blog are expressing a general frustration with the materialism and packaging of today’s upper-middle class high school seniors, when elite education would provide much greater benefits to, like, kids from lower-income families.
The girls in the article just happened to be concrete, convenient symbols to attack (not that that justifies our behavior).
I hope Esther finds happiness at Smith.
the weird girl says:
Oh, I didn’t mean to sound ungrateful to Swat. I love them madly too.
the weird girl says:
Sorry, to clarify AGAIN, I meant more like “I think many of the comments on this blog are expressing a general frustration with the materialism and packaging of today’s upper-middle class high school seniors, when there are inner city students who might not even think about college because the threat of getting shot the next day requires more thought.”
Anonymous says:
Sorry, to clarify AGAIN, I meant more like “I think many of the comments on this blog are expressing a general frustration with the materialism and packaging of today’s upper-middle class high school seniors, when there are inner city students who might not even think about college because the threat of getting shot the next day requires more thought.”
Anonymous says:
“I realize that Williams cannot except 20 kids from the same school”
maybe if nnhs taught its students the difference between accept and except they would do a little better getting into williams.
David R says:
Ah yes, the obligatory comment from an anonymous blog troll. Since when is it necessary to proofread blog posts? If you’re going to make an utterly useless and mean-spirited comment, at least put your name to the post.