Sun 27 May 2007
Excellent Transcript article by Adam Bloch ‘06 on Coach Ralph White (hat tip to Jeff Zeeman).
Not everyone is so enamored with White, however. Though the Williams sprinters, who are personally coached by White, offer almost unanimous support, there are some dissenters.
“During my time at Williams, I was often extremely frustrated and disconcerted with both his coaching and leadership style,” Caroline Cretti, an enormously successful distance runner who graduated in 2006, said last week. “Many organizational and logistical aspects of the team were run strangely. His success comes from his athletes, who are incredible, and a support system that is second to none in the country.”
When pressed to explain White’s accomplishments before his tenure at Williams, however, Cretti admitted that his methods were successful for some.
“I do understand that the coach-athlete relationship is a personal, individual one, and that he has a method that does work for certain athletes, but at times I wonder at what cost to their emotional or mental state,” she said. “His relationships with his athletes are unhealthy. Athletes began to determine their success by his reaction and nothing more. When he took that approval away, the effect it had was unbelievably unacceptable. It was unsettling to see that over and over again to some of the strongest, most incredible people I have encountered.”
Gray and fellow captain Katie Howard, both sprinters, disagreed with Cretti’s assessment, which was supported by several other alumni.
“He’s easily the best coach I’ve ever had,” Howard said last week. “I can’t imagine returning to Williams as a visitor next year, and coach White not being here.”
Howard created a group on Facebook.com called “We Support Coach White” that has drawn more than 100 members. There have been many other outspoken displays of support. Athletes, alumni and parents have expressed condemnation of the CAP’s decision on Ephblog.com, the Web site of Williams Students Online and Letsrun.com. Many supporters have sent letters to members of the CAP lauding White and urging the college to reconsider its decision.
And thanks for the shout out to EphBlog (although the Transcript should refer to us as “EphBlog” not “Ephblog.com”.
Although I still think that White is doomed, the historical example that he (and his lawyer and his supporters) should look to is Mark Reinhardt’s successful appeal of his initial tenure denial by CAP a decade ago. There are lessons in that story for those who would learn them.
Other highlights below..
Two months ago, Ralph White led the Williams College women’s track and field team to the Division 3 NCAA Championship. A month from now, he will likely clear out his office, leaving Williams behind unwillingly amid a storm of controversy.
White, who as head coach of the track and field teams guided his program to the first national title in its history, is in the last year of his contract as a junior faculty member. His attempt to join the senior faculty was twice rejected. He is planning another appeal later this week.
“I’d like to think that when all is said and done, it will all turn out to be a misunderstanding,” White said Wednesday from Wisconsin, where he’s preparing his teams for the national championships. He expressed a strong desire to remain with the Ephs and a faith that the Williams administration would reverse its decision.
The non-renewal of White’s contract has set off a firestorm of debate that has dominated the campus and several Web logs for the past several weeks. College officials have declined to comment on the reasons for the decision.
“I was extremely surprised,” men’s track captain Tyler Gray, a senior, said last week. “I heard from a friend who’s an alumnus, and at first I thought he was joking. It had never occured to me that something like that could happen.”
Since White was named head coach in 2001, the Ephs have finished in the top 10 at Division 3 NCAA Championship meets 12 times and in the top five on eight different occasions, culminating with the triumph of the women’s indoor squad on March 12, when they won the national title. Most recently, White was named NESCAC Coach of the Year for the second season in a row for women’s track and field. On Tuesday, he was honored as the Division 3 New England Coach of the Year by the U.S. Track and Field and Cross Country Coaches Association.
Before he came to Williams, White compiled more than 30 years of coaching experience, including stints as the head coach at Allegheny, Southern Methodist, George Mason and Clemson. He led the Southern Methodist men’s team to a Division 1 NCAA title in 1986.
According to several of his current and former athletes, White’s coaching success extends beyond producing fast times on the track.
“He’s always there for his athletes,” Shamus Brady, a former track captain who graduated in 2004 and has been one of the most outspoken alumni in support of White, said last week. “He wanted to know about people beyond athletics.”
Despite such achievements and accolades, White was rebuffed by the Committee on Appointments and Promotions, which consists of Williams President Morton O. Schapiro, Provost William Lenhart, Dean of the Faculty William Wagner and three other professors. His appeal to the CAP in April was turned down, leaving an appeal to the Faculty Steering Committee as White’s only remaining option.
“The process begins in the department with all the senior members reviewing the junior faculty,” James Kolesar, assistant to the president for public affairs, said last week of the committee’s deliberations. “They observe them and base a lot of their opinions on student input. They make recommendations to the CAP. Those are kept confidential, but they are given a lot of weight. Confidentiality is a very important part of the process.”
Though Kolesar, White and Tim Karpoff, White’s lawyer, declined to comment on the reasons provided by the CAP, widespread public speculation has revolved around two subjects: a master’s degree White acquired from Rochville University and a former Williams assistant coach named Antoine Agbra. Several sources, including students, alumni and other coaches, have confirmed that these issues formed the basis of the CAP’s decision.
All senior faculty members at Williams are required to have a master’s degree. According to a letter sent by former Williams track assistant coaches Michelle Burgher and Kurt Duncan to a group of team alumni and parents, White acquired a master’s from Rochville University, an online institution.
“When I google Rochville and look at their page, I see a list that says no studies, no examinations, no classes, no hefty fee,” Kolesar said. “If you then go to the U.S. Department of Education and search for Rochville, it doesn’t show up among accredited universities.”
Rochville is considered by many a diploma mill, but Burgher wrote that White got approval for his degree from Williams athletic director Harry Sheehy in 2004: “Kurt … and I were with him when he was explaining to Mr. Sheehy about the degree he got credit for, and Mr. Sheehy explicitly said that it would be fine.”
Sheehy, who is on sabbatical, could not be reached for comment.
Agbra, a native of Benin, was hired as an assistant coach by White for the 2004-05 season. During his time at Williams, White apparently helped him get a job at Stop & Shop to supplement his income from the college. This violated the rules of the visa that Agbra had received.
White’s supporters have stressed the positive influence that Agbra had on the team and the humanitarian nature of the hiring. Burgher and Duncan wrote that Agbra and his family were impoverished when they immigrated and that White helped pay for their travel and medical care. Detractors have claimed that Agbra did hardly any work with the team and had no coaching qualifications.
“The college has been saying that it can’t tell us the whole story because of confidentiality,” Gray said. “I think the visa and master’s things seem kind of silly if those are the only grounds. Look at all the good things he has done.”
No good deed has been as visible as White’s interaction with Maddy Outman, a junior who has become one of the most successful and versatile track and field athletes in Division 3. In a broadcast aired by CBS during the indoor national championships in March, Outman credited White with helping her recover from a freshman year plagued by alcoholism and an eating disorder.
“He was the only other person for a while who I thought really believed I could be somebody, and I think that was probably the single most helpful thing in getting me to turn around,” she said in the CBS segment.
…
In response, Schapiro and Wagner sent an e-mail to hundreds of track alumni in late April acknowledging many of the positive things White has accomplished and the outpouring of support for him. The missive also stressed, though, that the CAP’s decision-making process was very thorough and that the college stood by its original position.
“We understand the contributions Coach White has made to the program, to the college, and to many of you,” the e-mail read. “May that continue through the rest of this season. But then, the college is utterly convinced, it is time to move on.”
Kolesar said that White’s case can only be reopened if the CAP used improper or biased methods to evaluate his application.
According to Karpoff, a former Williams runner who graduated in 2001 and volunteered his legal services pro bono in April, White will continue fighting to have his contract renewed before the Faculty Steering Committee.
“We’re going to make every argument that’s available to us (during the second appeal), and we hope that the college will realize that they made a hasty decision and change their minds,” Karpoff said, explaining his client’s persistence. “He loves Williams. He loves the kids that he’s coaching there, and his wife is very happy there. He’s run an exceptional program. In addition, he feels that his integrity has been impugned.”
Getting a degree from a diploma mill will do that to you.


May 27th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Just for the record, Caroline Cretti NEVER worked with Coach White- she was always coached by Pete Farwell and would be no judge to say that his coaching relationships were unhealthy. Caroline complained just as much about Pete as she does about Coach White here, and is now criticizing her CURRENT coaches! I remember when Caroline dropped out of our cross-country race because she wasn’t winning, and then later dropped out of races at track nationals because she lost the lead. This did not go over well with Coach White, and she was a princess who got mad when he expressed his disappointment. I ran with Caroline on XC and track, and know that she lost a lot of support from us for being selfish. We could have won an XC and indoor track championship if she hadn’t dropped out, but it was always about Caroline and not about the team. As a captain she was barely able to find her own front door, much less be an accurate judge of what was going on out of her event group. (There’s a reason she was called a “blonde”)I didn’t work with coach white either, but he has always been a fantastic leader for us and I think, as usual, Caroline is way off the mark here.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:32 am
I have been uncomfortable with the Coach White situation since I am an alum who cares about the best interests of the college; a track/cross alum who cares about the interests of the team; a future academic who will eventually face the tenure process; and a graduate degree holder whose return depends upon the integrity of the title. It was refreshing to shake Coach White’s hand this weekend and watch his 4×4 team blaze to second in the last race of nationals. Real people are involved in this and out of respect, we should be careful with our words.
One thing I now feel completely at ease saying:
You obnoxious gutless little fuck. How dare you write something like that without the decency to attach your name. Only a complete douche would place the blame on not winning a championship on one runner. You are an embarrassment to Williams Track and Field for having posted this garbage. Pete and Coach White would be appalled that you did so. Reasonable people can disagree about coaching methods, but only a real shit claims a teammate bailed on a race.
I won’t comment on Caroline’s quote or provide my own, but I know for sure that Caroline is not the only one to have that opinion of Coach White’s style. She has been the only one brave enough to voice it.
Finally, you are just plain wrong that a team-member who wasn’t coached by White is unable to comment about the effects his methods would have on the athletes he did train. You just sound bitter and jealous.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:38 am
I am no longer going to read any White-related threads on this blog. I prefer to think the better of my former teammates. Anonymous, you disgust me. I don’t suport Coach White, and may criticize some of my teammates who do for being illogical, but I would never make so many unfounded and libelous claims about a teammate. One thing is clear: the track and cross country programs would not have attained national proweress without Caroline. Additionally, Caroline was an exemplary teammate who took the time to interact with all members of the team. No amount of being upset justifies your remarks. I hope you won’t be on the team next year.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Thank you, Krause, for expressing my thoughts with fewer obscenities.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:11 am
It’s getting testy out!
May 27th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
If Caroline wasn’t in “the know” about CRW, then I don’t know who is as she was a three time captain in the sport. She was extremely well liked and supported by basically all of the other coaches and was close with most, if not all of the team. Her sophomore year she did drop out of two races, but one was injury and the other was simply hitting the wall in a way that can happen in distance races. Two races out of who knows many for Williams Track and XC in her four years running FOR the program. Give her a break. Better yet, maybe you should think about why a person who is supported by 90% of all involved in the sport would take the chance and speak out against this man.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Ha, ha, ha,
it is extremely amusing to read all these acrimonious discussions about who-did-what as an undergrad. Do you people have a life? Is your current life so sad that you need to live off your old college fame? Move on!
BTW, I am amazed — amazed! — to learn that there is such a concept as a “tenure for coaches.” Other college staff such as B&G people, financial aid office people, etc. do not have tenure. Why do coaches have tenure? The concept of this is mind-bogling.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
I was fortunate enough to be a co-captain of cross-country with Caroline Cretti, and I find it hard to believe that anyone on the team could call her selfish. Caroline was loved and was respected by the entire team and the entire coaching staff. She is the definition of a good leader. She put the team’s interests in front of her own EVERY chance she got. I remember instances when she would stay up late into the night consoling an injured teammate “the night before the night before” a big race (even Nationals!). She would train with people who were not as fast as her, so they could get a better workout, even though her workout wouldn’t be as good. How can you possibly call her selfish?
The two races you speak of were from her sophomore year, when she had numerous injuries, including a stress fracture in her foot. At cross country NCAAs that year, she ran injured, at the risk of worsening her injury, because the team decided as a whole that they had a better chance at a high place finish with her running than with a substitute. She couldn’t finish because half-way through the race she literally could not move her leg, much less run. She was on crutches for 24 hours after the race. She always gave her best for her team, often at the expense of herself and her own individual interests. As for the 5k race that she did not finish at indoor nationals that year, you claim that she dropped out “because she lost the lead.” This is not consistent with the 13 other times she ran in a national race and finished…despite not leading the race. She only won nationals her last 3 races. You make her out to seem like someone who only will finish a race if she is doing well, which is just not true. She dropped out of the race because she hit a wall…hard.
Furthermore, you make the unsupported claim that “we could have won an XC and indoor track championship if she hadn’t dropped out”. If you had actually looked at the numbers, you would realize this is not true. Even if Caroline had WON the 2003 NCAA cross country championship (doubtful seeing as that year Missy Buttry won in 20.00.02 minutes, winning by over a minute and capturing her second of three national xc titles), Williams would have had a team total of 151 points, which would put them behind Middlebury’s new score of 140 points (the lowest team total wins in cross country). And if Caroline had taken first in the 2004 Indoor National 5k, Williams would have only had 25 points, behind both Wisconsin OshKosh and Wheaton College, with 56.5 and 28 points respectively (the team with the highest points wins in track and field).
And how can you say that “as a captain she was barely able to find her own front door”? I was her co-captain for cross-country, and I got the chance to work with her very closely. She was the IDEAL co-captain and I have never known anyone to balance their school, athletic, and leadership responsibilities so well. She is one of the best captains these teams have ever seen. She fostered so much team spirit and togetherness in her four years at Williams. Traditionally, and unfortunately, there was a lot of friction between the men’s and women’s cross country teams, and Caroline was a major factor in bringing the two teams together as one. When she was captain, the team was truly like one big family.
And the reason she is called a blonde is because of her hair color. (Seriously?? Is that the best you can come up with??).
As for her alleged complaining about Pete Farwell and her current coaches, I can only say that does not sound like the Caroline I know. Did you make that accusation up out of thin air? I ran with her for four years and I am still in very close contact with her and she has never been one to complain about Pete or her current coaches. NEVER. And seeing as you are not one of her friends, how could you possibly know what she talks about? Why on Earth would you make such an egregious and hurtful claim?
Have you ever considered the possibility that she knows more about the Coach White situation than she let on in the interview with Adam Bloch because she actually has tact? She worked with Coach White very closely as a captain and thus was able to see how he managed the team, which is a very important component of a head coaching job. Furthermore, as a teammate, captain, friend, and confidante to many athletes on the team (in ALL event groups), she was able to see Coach White’s impact on the team, in more ways than just the final results of a meet.
I find it upsetting that a proponent of Coach White would resort to slandering someone as well-respected and as accomplished as Caroline Cretti, instead of dealing with the actual issues at hand here. I think this is a difficult transition time for the Track and Field team, and I do feel sorry for the athletes that have to go through this. But if Coach White does not return, I do hope that the team will bond together and welcome the new head coach with an open mind, as Coach White’s shoes will undoubtedly be difficult to fill. Taking your anger out on Caroline via EphBlog is not the way to get through this, and you are hurting some truly wonderful people in the process.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Look, another ignorant chicken shit who wants to talk smack about people without the canoli to add their name. When you have the guts to say to my face what you anonymously post here, then I’ll pay attention. Until then, stick your calculator/violin/paintbrush/Bunsen burner/right hand or whatever else you so proudly used to occupy your free time in college as far up your rear end as it will go.
The problem we have with rumors, half-truths, innuendo, and slimy personal attacks would be curtailed if folks couldn’t hide in their anonymity. Of course, you’re just a phantom and I have no problem telling a computational figment to fuck off.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Thank you Andrea, for writing such a wonderful response to the above poster — who was so ludicrously off-the-mark about Caroline that I am sick thinking about it.
And Caroline, if you are reading this, I am sorry that you had to read such crap(you were a wonderful captain and teammate, and only an idiot would write you off on first glance as a “blonde”). It took a lot of bravery to share a dissenting opinion against a loud mob.
It certainly does make one think about posting anonymously if their thoughts might be rewarded with a vicious tearing-apart of their character and past…
May 27th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Richard please refrain from offensive obscenities.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
No. I do not discriminate against some words, calling them offensive or obscene. What did they ever do to you to earn such insults?
I choose to use all those coarse, dirty little words the English language has bequeathed to us to express anger, disgust, and disdain.
What are offensive and obscene are the undeserved, uninformed and hurtful slanders cowards make on this blog–on this topic and others. COWARDS.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Getting somewhat back on topic, I too was surprised that the writer of the transcript article decided that Caroline was the best person to talk to, but for a very different reason. I am not bashing her by saying she WASN’T qualified to talk about Coach White, rather I was curious why they didn’t stick with captains of this year, or people closer to home where this is all happening? Regardless of how well or not well Caroline knew Coach White, I don’t think you could argue that she has the *best* perspective having been out a year now.
Also, seeing as I was cited in the article without knowing it until this very moment, I want to emphasize what I said- I can’t speak for anyone else, but there was certainly nothing “unhealthy” about my interactions with Coach- to the contrary I credit him with saving my life. Whether or not ‘anonymous’ is a fan of Caroline is sort of irrelevant to the discussion at hand which is Coach’s awful situation. Caroline was a very sweet person and a greatly talented runner, but anonymous and respondents I think are somewhat missing the point of the article’s posting…
Slander is perhaps best left ignored.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
First, congratulations Maddy on an incredibly gutsy first leg yesterday, you four ran one of the best 4×4’s I’ve ever seen live.
My own opinion on why they went to Caroline was because it would not be prudent for any current member of the team to speak negatively of Coach White. A negative comment at this point of the season just hurts the team. What if instead of Caroline, the comment was from someone on your relay? Someone you train with? Someone you eat dinner with? While I believe in honesty, there is also a time to remain silent.
Among alums, the opinions on Coach White run the spectrum and we are far enough away from competition that what any one of us says shouldn’t influence any of your performances. We are actually the perfect people to ask for quotations.
The track team has to be the most diverse on campus. We are different sizes and shapes and colors: from the incredibly awkward–in so many respects–male distance runners to sprinters and throwers. The camaraderie on a team that large and that diverse is amazing and it would be a shame if it was another victim of this situation.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
This discussion reminds me why I was more or less miserable during my 4 years at Williams. I don’t know of any other school which is so closed in its New England cocoon, in which the supreme worry of 50 percent of the campus is whether they are going to run fast the next day. I guess that it really is the case that the teams have replaced the frats at Williams.
PS. Mr. Dunn, you seem to have… issues.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:48 am
The article below appeared in the Advocate on May 24th I think. Dave was kind enough to email me a copy.
Also, whoever said all that about Caroline clearly never even ran with her or for Williams.
Devil’s Advocate
By Dave Fehr
The man who won too much
Coaches get fired for all sorts of reasons, but mostly because they don’t win enough. Or their outrageous actions embarrass the university (see Knight, B.). Or they recruit thugs who never graduate. So I’m trying to figure out the real reason why Williams track coach Ralph White is not having his contract renewed.
I generally follow local teams closely enough to decide for myself whether the coach is good, and whether or not they are the kind of person who will fit in around here. But I’ve never met Coach White, and hardly ever see his teams compete because they host virtually no home meets because they have virtually no home facilities. I’ve been disappointed in reading about White’s firing (technically a “non-contract renewal,” though I’m sure this distinction is not very comforting to White). The Williams Record quotes an assistant coach as calling athletic director Harry Sheehy a liar; I’ve never known Harry to lie, and I hope it didn’t happen in this case. This is ugly and non-Williams-like.
The college won’t state the complete reasons for its action, but White’s lack of a master’s degree is one specific mentioned in the newspaper. This doesn’t wash, because the athletic department would have taken care of this when White was hired. They would have said something like this: “Ralph, we think that a valid master’s is an important requirement for our senior coaches. You say that you intend to get one, but this will be very hard to do, given that your teams train and compete for virtually the entire academic year, and there are no universities within easy commuting distance. We won’t accept a degree from a diploma mill. If you can accomplish this, fine, but otherwise when you come up for renewal in five years, it’s unlikely to happen.” And, given that Williams is a well-run organization, all this would have been in writing so there could be no misunderstanding. This must have been the way it was handled…it’s the only right way.
On the other hand, if this (ital) was (ital) the reason, one has to ask whether policies should be waived when it makes sense to do so. This sort of stick-to-the-rules-no-matter-what mentality would deny Bill Gates the right to teach at the Harvard B-School because he never earned a bachelor’s degree.
I also have trouble believing that White’s hiring and handling of an international assistant coach played a major role here. Williams pays assistant coaches so little that they have to live in communal caves north of town, and the college pays no attention to their health and wellbeing, so why should this be an issue in White’s future here.
I said that I don’t know White, but I have read several profiles of him. Successful Division I coach, came to Williams to escape the win-at-any-cost pressures of big-time track, came to a place where the kids are here for the right reasons but also want to win. Sounds like his head’s screwed on straight. His athletes and alums, many of them anyway, support him. So why is he being dismissed?
Then it came to me: He wins too much! Williams is uncomfortable with all this winning. It gets the faculty bent out of shape and peer institutions laugh at us, saying we’re just a jock school disguised as an elite, best-in-the-nation liberal arts college. Coaches are valued most when they win maybe half their games, beat Amherst once in a while, are well-liked good guys who never make waves and are seen but not heard. Most Eph coaches understand this. If they have a long streak where they win most of their games, and maybe a national championship or two, they probably think: “I’d better tone it down a bit for a few years before we get really good again. Not exactly lose on purpose, but…”
Williams has been strong in track and field forever, and White has done nothing to change this. He’s continued a long string of indoor and outdoor Little Three, NESCAC and ECAC Division 3 championships. His teams show quite well against Division I schools in events like the All-New England championships, IC4As and Penn Relays. In the NCAAs, he successfully competes against much larger D3 track-mill schools which sometimes have low admissions requirements.
Doesn’t matter, he wins anyway. He not only overcomes the handicap of poor facilities, but in his case, no facilities. Doesn’t matter, he wins anyway.
But in March, White did the unthinkable, and it may have been the last straw. He took a tiny squad of nine women to Indiana, each scored in every event entered, and they came home with a national championship, Williams’ first in track and field. How embarrassing! Now we’ll win yet another Directors’ Cup that we’ll somehow have to apologize for and explain away.
White is not the only Eph coach to be dismissed recently, and MCLA’s firing of Devin Gotham, a nice and gentle man (and, I thought, a good coach working in an impossible situation–Duke’s Coach K couldn’t win at MCLA) did not sit well with me, either. Somehow, Berkshire County is becoming a graveyard of Division 3 coaches. It shouldn’t be like this.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:10 am
Here is the link to the article.
http://www.advocateweekly.com/fastsearch/ci_5975995
May 28th, 2007 at 6:55 am
Wouldn’t it be desirable if each Williams student felt sufficiently positive about his College experience, including any athletic competition, and at the same time if no Williams-related person ever needed again to speak or write about the U.S. News and World Report rankings or the Director’s Cup standings or to make any hyperbolic reference to the Williams/Amherst football game as “The Biggest Little Game in America”?
May 28th, 2007 at 8:59 am
“why I was more or less miserable during my 4 years at Williams”
That was entirely your choice. And your not accepting responsibility for that choice is very telling of your (lack of) character.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Not to derail this discussion, but I have a question for anonymous @ 8:59AM:
Does everyone who doesn’t enjoy Williams lack character? I can think of a fair few intelligent and successful people who have not enjoyed Williams. Hell, I’ve spent large swathes of my time at Williams being miserable about it. Does that reflect negatively on my character, even as I’ve been getting smarter, (occasionally) running faster and building relationships with professors and fellow students?
But speaking to the proud non-jock, and the point of this discussion:
First off, I know where your bitterness is coming from, and it’s not as un-founded as some of you may believe. Part of my ongoing personal struggle to make a place for myself at Williams is a struggle with the role of athletics at Williams. Athletics is not as unambiguously positive as some people make out - there are exclusions and some frat-like elements.
My time on the track team (halted by surgery and study abroad) was also deeply ambiguous. And, to be honest, I never got that good of an impression of Coach White. But what’s relevant to this discussion is that I’ve tried my best to keep an open mind about the man and let the facts and testimonials speak for him. He’s done a tremendous amount of good, and I respect that.
Now to both sides of this particular argument:
Perhaps consider the possibility that a different viewpoint may have something to teach you. And please formulate your points in such a way as to make that possible.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Hmm, I seem to have missed something - that I’m in favor of RW staying at Williams, not as a result of previous experiences, but as a result of the fact that I tried to hear what other people had to say for (and against) him.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Fraternities - the favorite whipping boy of many who were or are unhappy!
May 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Anyone who thinks a coach would be dismissed at Williams BECAUSE they won a national title is deluded. White’s contract was not renewed DESPITE having won a national title. I’m sure it weighed very heavily on the CAP’s decision making process.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
I would bet a considerable sum that the Fehr article was written with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
“Does everyone who doesn’t enjoy Williams lack character? … Does that reflect negatively on my character … ?”
My comment was in reference to personal choices and responsibility: “That was entirely your choice. And your not accepting responsibility for that choice is very telling of your (lack of) character.” It’s more an issue of, when one is handed lemons, one finding fault with either the source (or provider) of the lemons, or the lemons themselves — rather than going ahead and trying to make the best lemonade one could possibly make with them.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Frank - I know that you automatically defend fraternities against any criticism, real or perceived, but my point wasn’t to talk shit about frats, or blame them for Williams’ perhaps unaccomadating atmosphere.
I could have just as easily said “cult-like elements” or “herd-like elements”, but let’s face it, both of those are pretty viciously negative in a way that I was not trying to be. Fraternities have some of the same exclusionary group mentality, but in a restrained and more ambiguous form.
As I’m sure you would be ready to tell us, fraternities have certain positive aspects (especially for their members) as a result of that mindset. As do athletic teams at Williams.
The difficulty for those marked as unconventional (by race, sexuality, socioeconomic background, interests, etc) is, as I suggested, finding or making a place within that group. Some people succeed, others don’t - but it’s not easy, and you shouldn’t merely dismiss those still struggling with it.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Fair enough, anon@1:41PM. Without a doubt, there are people that retreat into pure negativity - you’re probably right that the proud non-jock has done so.
Just the same, it’s not necessarily easy to make lemonade out of the bag of lemons that Williams hands us all. To continue the metaphor, some of us arrive at Williams with lemon-squeezing machines, and some of us arrive not even aware that we’re paying 40,000 pistoozas (less financial aid) for a sack o’ lemons.
Making lemonade is not an easy process without the latest from the Williams-Sonoma catalog. And so some of us, Williams students that is, end up flopping around in lemon rinds for a while, trying to find our feet in a citric environment. Not everyone succeeds in finding a place at Williams.
But we all have to try, to struggle, to figure out the process of making lemonade, with shiny squeezer or by hand. That’s something we all share, whether or not we end up with anything drinkable out of the entire pulpy experience.
May 28th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Daily life is full of exclusions for everyone, but on average unconventional people probably are subject to a few more exclusions than conventional. On the other hand, unconventionality is not without its advantages. For instance, if one has come to terms with his non-conformity, he does not need to weigh the exclusionary possibilities of picking, scratching or passing gas as, when and where he sees fit. The presence or absence of fraternities has little to do with the foregoing proposition.
May 28th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
You’re right - since there aren’t any fraternities at Williams, it is a complete non-issue.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Fraternities and Coach Ralph White. The connection is this: what is the identity of Williams College in the end? Do we desire to be able to pick out a
Williams graduate in a crowd walking through Times Square? (He’s the white boy wearing LLBean button-down shirt, kakhi pants, boat mocs, reading the Wall Street Journal.) In that long-ago era of 1957, when black children couldn’t go to school with white children in many places, Williams included, this was a place for upper-middle-class WASP boys, many of them (>50%?) from New England prep schools, who came for an extension of Andover before graduating to the country club. [Do you disagree Frank U.? Do the admission stats of the era refute this observation? You were here then; tell us what you know from experience.] It was an image shared with Amherst; hence the mystique of the Williams-Amhherst football game: the pilgrims at play, more or less.
As related in earlier posts elsewhere on this blog, Jews didn’t get into fraternities (and only a few got into the school!); similarly non-WASPs were relegated to the Odd Quad. The fraternity system was an extension and refinement of this system: it repreented a stratification based on birth, not achievement.
Athletic teams are nothing like that. You get on a team by training, effort, skill; your daddy’s checkbook, or your mommy’s ancestral home, are irrelvant.
But now comes Coach White. His own biography isn’t something out of a John Cheever story, which is perhaps Problem One. But he has created a niche in a larger environment that lately tolerates, even encourages, diversity.
Or does it?
Diversity in some respects, yes, by offering discounts to people outside the mainstream Northeastern upper-middle-class establishment. But diversity can be measured in many ways, and it has its limits, as Ralph White is learning to the regret of many people.
But all of this is a diversion from the real point. White’s problems are explained by earlier comments about Wililams’ lack of track facilities that were in such poor repair that the school was ineligible to host meets. Parents raised a ruckus, George Steinbrenner made inquries, and voila! a new track surface was provided–but a certain college president of our acquaintance got pissed off mightily at having his capital spending plan messed with. Coaching style? Background? Record? Classism? Racism? All irrelevant to this story…except insofar as we are seeing how Willilams goes about dealing with issues it would prefer to hide under the Astroturf.
Oh, and that guy walking through Times Square? Headed for the IRT downtown express en route from Grand Central to Wall Street via a walk over to Broadway & 42nd on this fine summer’s day.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Another (or maybe the same) anonymous COWARD. If you would like to impugn our president and my mentor, why not do it honorably?
I doubt your sum total of meaningful interactions with Morty surpasses 3. Ironically, the pettiness you describe is self-referential. You know zero about Morty, so why not just shut up.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Richard I STRONGLY object to your name-calling, especially when it comes to calling people cowardly. Personally, I hesitate to sign my name on ephblog because I actually concretely fear reprecussions from the administration. If you think Jim Kolesar doesn’t spend half his day monitoring what goes on here, you are sorely mistaken.
However, on the subject of cowards, I would put forth the following example: I sent Pres. Shapiro a lengthy, passionate letter on the Coach White topic- one which raised some serious issues and concerns, but stayed polite. It also invited a response. I received a prompt receipt for the letter so I know it was read, but I never got anything back. I was not even granted one of the formulated responses that has gone to every other correspondent on Coach White’s behalf. Rather than addressing or even acknowledging anything I had said, some of which had serious import, the whole thing was simply avoided/ignored.
THAT is cowardice.
Anonymous posting (can be) just self-protection.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Was that you that I saw on the IRT Richard?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
In the 1950s, the Williams fraternity system was flawed, the College was similarly flawed (the fundamental reason that there were few blacks in Williams fraternities was that there were only a handful of blacks in the entire College - there were none in my class, the Class of 1957), and the nation was flawed more greatly. Why blame the flaws of the College and the nation on the Williams fraternity system. If the fraternity system deserved to be stamped out, then so did the College, and the State of Mississippi, along with many other States, should have been expelled from the Union.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Rodney King just called. He wants everyone to just get along.
Anonymous, no need, of course, for you to ID yourself, but do you really think the administration even monitors Ephblog, let alone actually take some action against someone for posting on it? What action could they or would they possibly take? I’ve never even heard of any official administration reaction to anything posted on this site, at least not so far as I can recall.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Following up on Frank’s comments, and paraphrasing one Otter from Faber College:
“You can bad mouth the fraternity system, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!”
May 30th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Why paraphrase when you can watch?
May 30th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
“I sent Pres. Shapiro a lengthy, passionate letter on the Coach White topic… but I never got anything back.”
Maybe Morty only responds to letters that address him personally. Or maybe he forwarded it to Pres. Shapiro: http://www.barnard.edu/president/bio.html
Morty is not a coward. However, he might be, rather understandably, a stickler for details on such things as the proper spelling of his name.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Unlike Jeff, I don’t believe it is OK to post anonymously and insult people while doing it. In my book, you are a coward because your actions are cowardly. Anonymous posters have insulted Caroline Cretti, Morty, Sheehy, and myself on this one thread. You only get to do so because you can hide in cyberspace. You are a paranoid, arrogant disease that makes discussion on the internet impossible. You aren’t Deep Throat or some DoD whistle-blower. You are a 20 year old who attends a Mensa camp. Get over yourself.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
“Morty is my mentor.” So, that must mean that we
–Resort at the outset to ad hominem attacks instead of discussing the merits of the case;
–Use crude language for lack of any more sophisticated or effective way to express an emotional response (none of these Anglo Saxonisms are relevant or useful in a rational discussion, do you think?).
–Declare that only personal interaction is a valid basis for legitimate opinions. (GWBush is a good ol’ boy, full of nicknames, and Joe Stalin was always so adoring around his grandchildren, as anyone who knew them will testify).
What else did you learn from your mentor?
Oh yeah, USE ALL CAPS TO SHOW HOW SERIOUS YOU ARE. Now, does that cover it? My mentor indeed. Let’s hope not. Still, the quality of thought exhibited on this blog may be revealing of a lot more than the merits of the college’s decision on whether to fire a successful coach.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
At Williams winning does not necessarily make a coach successful.
May 30th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
If I am being lumped with Morty, all I can say is, “Thank you.” He is one of the most honorable and respected men in academia, economics, and education policy. If can I accomplish half as much as he has in twice the time, personally and professionally, I will call my life, in all respects, an unqualified success.
What always struck me about Morty was his restraint in the face of baseless, abusive, and uninformed attacks. It is obvious he is much better suited to the role of college president than I am and thankfully it is not a position I would ever want.
I think I will depart Ephblog now with this high praise, leaving it to others to point out:
It is impossible to attack ad hominem without a homo. In my opinion, an anonymous internet poster is binary code and no more human than a spreadsheet or the email for penis enhancement from Neil Hemphill sitting in my inbox.
Someone else will have to inform you that your verbose sentence contained no more than 4 words of Anglo-Saxon origin. But, I could be wrong, I am so crude and unsophisticated with such simple notions as: why spend three lines when what perfectly describes someone requires only 4 letters and is more than they really deserve? Personally, that’s not crude; that’s economical.
Another soul will have to explain that the truth value of your biconditional depends on whether personal attacks against Caroline or Morty or anyone qualifies as legitimate.
THANKS AGAIN.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:57 am
gunning for a slot in the econ department already, rich?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:46 am
You know how Wikipedia has barnstars? I say we give Rich a “Defending Morton Owen Shapiro from Rude, Uncouth, Baseless and Really Quite Anonymous Attacks on TEH INTERNETS” merit badge. And right away, too!
In all seriousness, how difficult would a user moderated comment system be to implement? I’d love to see the regular poster zoo codified in this fashion (obviously on a scale of 1 -> Frank, where Frank would be ultimate karma).
May 31st, 2007 at 7:50 am
Hey Rich, can you forward me that email? Sounds intriguing. Thanks.
… (just trying to lighten the mood a little)
May 31st, 2007 at 9:53 am
Aidan: I have never been the gold standard with respect to anything - and I doubt that I ought to be one now.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:58 am
Why blame the flaws of the College and the nation on the Williams fraternity system. If the fraternity system deserved to be stamped out, then so did the College…
No, Frank, not “stamped out.” In need of change. What you call “the fraternity system” was indeed a cog in a larger system of class privilege based not on merit but on ancestry, which includes class and race. Go to the right school, join the right fraternity, call your ‘brother’ to get a job at Smith, Barney…the carousel goes round and round. Fraternities, Williams … parts of a system that denied opportunity to black people, Irish people, Italians, or people from Slavic-speaking countries, in successive waves. Authority figures acting behind closed doors were enforcers, acting under the veneer of “rules and regulations” that justified their actions in advance, and spouting false rhetoric (”liberty and justice for all” being just one example). Authorities needed to be challenged then, they were challenged, the system changed, one step at a time. In retrospect, it stank for many; it smells better now for some. The change continues. We don’t just “move on,” to quote one recent diktat; we change, then we move forward. The era of presidents and their minions acting behind closed doors, hiding behind false claims, whether it’s “WMD” or “a Master’s degree,” that don’t withstand scrutiny is over… or in the process of going away. That’s the link between fraternities then and the Coach White situation now. The beneficiaries of the old way don’t like change. Tough.