Comments on: What’s the Matter With College? http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/ All Things Eph Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:22:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Jim Schachter http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14086 Jim Schachter Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:18:53 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14086 I'm the deputy editor of The New York Times Magazine responsible for this essay contest. I really hope you will take your arguments with Rick Perlstein to the next step and submit an essay in response. The deadline is Aug. 6. No, we're not giving out a scholarship to the winner. But the best essay will be published in our Sept. 30th issue, and the runners-up online. Any of you who are aspiring writers can, I think, see the value even at this late date in history of being published in The New York Times Magazine. All the details are at <a href="http://nytimes.com/essay/" rel="nofollow">http://nytimes.com/essay/</a>. I’m the deputy editor of The New York Times Magazine responsible for this essay contest. I really hope you will take your arguments with Rick Perlstein to the next step and submit an essay in response. The deadline is Aug. 6. No, we’re not giving out a scholarship to the winner. But the best essay will be published in our Sept. 30th issue, and the runners-up online. Any of you who are aspiring writers can, I think, see the value even at this late date in history of being published in The New York Times Magazine. All the details are at http://nytimes.com/essay/.

]]> By: Ironic Justice http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14085 Ironic Justice Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:53:04 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14085 'Marketalized'? Hello unnecessary neologize much? The Essay is like a stereotyped demonstration of the defects of the vague left- it doesn't offer firm prescriptions (or even descriptions), just a vague indictment of how inadequate the present day is for a lack of 'spirit' or something similar. Ugh. ‘Marketalized’?

Hello unnecessary neologize much?

The Essay is like a stereotyped demonstration of the defects of the vague left- it doesn’t offer firm prescriptions (or even descriptions), just a vague indictment of how inadequate the present day is for a lack of ’spirit’ or something similar. Ugh.

]]> By: David http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14084 David Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:23:15 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14084 "Undisciplined, aimless, lazy hedonism!" Perhaps a new slogan for EphBlog! “Undisciplined, aimless, lazy hedonism!” Perhaps a new slogan for EphBlog!

]]> By: frank uible http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14083 frank uible Wed, 18 Jul 2007 02:59:20 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14083 In the 50s often I and many others just plain goofed off, but we didn't try to glorify or justify it as anything other than what it was - namely, undisciplined, aimless, lazy hedonism. In the 50s often I and many others just plain goofed off, but we didn’t try to glorify or justify it as anything other than what it was - namely, undisciplined, aimless, lazy hedonism.

]]> By: Ken Thomas '93 http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14082 Ken Thomas '93 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:48:37 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14082 'anon': <blockquote>The overall thesis of the essay does not fail.</blockquote> Well, insomuch as the essay fails to define an overall thesis, I suppose you are correct. However, there is a strong flirtation with something like, "college should be more or less like my personal experience of the University of Chicago from '88-'92, as I have embellished it in the years since, ..., and which conforms to the Ideal of Liberal Berkeley in the 60s as the ad-hoc, definitional foundation of everything good in the world." This trope, while in its variations quite common throughout the academy, is largely invalidated by any reference to what are commonly known as 'facts,' although, admittedly, a large proportion of subscribers to the trope except themselves from "reality testing" with phrases such as "I study texts, not events." <blockquote>It did not take long for the non conformism found on college campuses to become 'marketalized'; unfortunately with this it also lost its intellectual founding.</blockquote> There are at least two premises from the article within the above; depending on how one phrases them, ... ‘anon’:

The overall thesis of the essay does not fail.

Well, insomuch as the essay fails to define an overall thesis, I suppose you are correct.

However, there is a strong flirtation with something like, “college should be more or less like my personal experience of the University of Chicago from ‘88-’92, as I have embellished it in the years since, …, and which conforms to the Ideal of Liberal Berkeley in the 60s as the ad-hoc, definitional foundation of everything good in the world.”

This trope, while in its variations quite common throughout the academy, is largely invalidated by any reference to what are commonly known as ‘facts,’ although, admittedly, a large proportion of subscribers to the trope except themselves from “reality testing” with phrases such as “I study texts, not events.”

It did not take long for the non conformism found on college campuses to become ‘marketalized’; unfortunately with this it also lost its intellectual founding.

There are at least two premises from the article within the above; depending on how one phrases them, …

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14081 Anonymous Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:26 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14081 The overall thesis of the essay does not fail. It did not take long for the non conformism found on college campuses to become 'marketalized'; unfortunately with this it also lost its intellectual founding. http://www.sric-bi.com/VALS/ The overall thesis of the essay does not fail. It did not take long for the non conformism found on college campuses to become ‘marketalized’; unfortunately with this it also lost its intellectual founding.

http://www.sric-bi.com/VALS/

]]> By: Ken Thomas '93 http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14080 Ken Thomas '93 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:08:36 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14080 There was such a question on the application in '88 (UChic was among my choices). The essay's description of life at Chicago seems a little overwrought and overdone, as well as inaccurate, "if I may say so." "Despite its many flaws--" including being almost entirely stuck in the United States, and an odd imaginary and wish-full re-visioning of the 60s onto '88-'92-- and perhaps as function of those flaws-- the essay "seems to me" to characterize some of our period's defining characteristics, even if the overall thesis fails. Wishing to be Berkeley in the 60s, in fact... The essay also provides the ego-affirming indication that there may be worse windbags than I... There was such a question on the application in ‘88 (UChic was among my choices). The essay’s description of life at Chicago seems a little overwrought and overdone, as well as inaccurate, “if I may say so.”

“Despite its many flaws–” including being almost entirely stuck in the United States, and an odd imaginary and wish-full re-visioning of the 60s onto ‘88-’92– and perhaps as function of those flaws– the essay “seems to me” to characterize some of our period’s defining characteristics, even if the overall thesis fails.

Wishing to be Berkeley in the 60s, in fact…

The essay also provides the ego-affirming indication that there may be worse windbags than I…

]]> By: Chris '10 http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14079 Chris '10 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:53:44 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14079 "Chicago is replacing its idiosyncratic "Uncommon Application"...(The new one would never have caught Doug Mitchell in its net: there is no space for listing favorite books.)" When I applied to Chicago with the Uncommon App there was nothing about a reading list. Although for Davidson I had to provide one as a supplement to the Common App. “Chicago is replacing its idiosyncratic “Uncommon Application”…(The new one would never have caught Doug Mitchell in its net: there is no space for listing favorite books.)”

When I applied to Chicago with the Uncommon App there was nothing about a reading list. Although for Davidson I had to provide one as a supplement to the Common App.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14078 Anonymous Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:10:26 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14078 What a windbag! I kept waiting for it to end. If the Times really wants to get submissions, they should offer a scholarship for the strongest essay. Replying to this sort of messy opinion piece just isn't worth the time of most students -- unless they are so heavily interested in the history and philosophy of education that they find they can't keep their keyboards silent. What a windbag! I kept waiting for it to end.

If the Times really wants to get submissions, they should offer a scholarship for the strongest essay. Replying to this sort of messy opinion piece just isn’t worth the time of most students — unless they are so heavily interested in the history and philosophy of education that they find they can’t keep their keyboards silent.

]]> By: Jeff Z. http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14077 Jeff Z. Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:11:21 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14077 ... and M.C. Hammer … and M.C. Hammer

]]> By: Aidan http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14076 Aidan Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:47:45 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14076 Dana Carvey. Dana Carvey.

]]> By: rory http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14075 rory Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:43:05 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14075 that he isn't a boomer makes it all the worse. Had he read even a single book about the history of colleges, thought why the common application might be a good thing (for applicants not astute on how to play the admissions game, it's much better), or an ethnography of college done even before his time in college, perhaps he wouldn't have written such a poor essay with a flawed premise. At least a boomer would have been excused for his/her nostalgia for the 60s...but who really wishes they were back in 88-92? that he isn’t a boomer makes it all the worse.

Had he read even a single book about the history of colleges, thought why the common application might be a good thing (for applicants not astute on how to play the admissions game, it’s much better), or an ethnography of college done even before his time in college, perhaps he wouldn’t have written such a poor essay with a flawed premise.

At least a boomer would have been excused for his/her nostalgia for the 60s…but who really wishes they were back in 88-92?

]]> By: Jeff Z. http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14074 Jeff Z. Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:48:49 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14074 I looked at the essay again and I agree with the above comments ... all the more reason for current Ephs to pen a rebuttal, as I imagine plenty could write something more compelling. I looked at the essay again and I agree with the above comments … all the more reason for current Ephs to pen a rebuttal, as I imagine plenty could write something more compelling.

]]> By: Aidan http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14073 Aidan Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:29:18 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14073 my apologies for assuming this windbag was a boomer. my apologies for assuming this windbag was a boomer.

]]> By: Ken Thomas '93 http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14072 Ken Thomas '93 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:37:43 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14072 "For nine years I've lived in the shadow of the University of Chicago -- as an undergraduate between 1988 and 1992," Otherwise, anecdotal nature of evidence noted. “For nine years I’ve lived in the shadow of the University of Chicago — as an undergraduate between 1988 and 1992,”

Otherwise, anecdotal nature of evidence noted.

]]> By: Aidan http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14071 Aidan Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:37:37 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14071 article turns on a "false equivalence." "College" is at best poorly defined as "anecdotal experience(s) of the author's at Chicago in the '70s." I thought it was rather disappointing. article turns on a “false equivalence.”

“College” is at best poorly defined as “anecdotal experience(s) of the author’s at Chicago in the ’70s.”

I thought it was rather disappointing.

]]> By: frank uible http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14070 frank uible Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:34:12 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14070 Rambling, generally badly written essay - D+ quality. Rambling, generally badly written essay - D+ quality.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.ephblog.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14069 Andrew Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:35:59 +0000 http://www.ephblog.dreamhosters.com/2007/07/15/whats-the-matter-with-college/#comment-14069 I'm tempted. I’m tempted.

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