Mon 30 Jul 2007
Who can help a young philosopher at College Confidential?
Hi! I’m very interested in both Philosophy and Williams, so my question is how do these two interact? Is the department good? How are the professors? Is the course load heavy? How is the graduate school admission rates like? The “Philosophical Gourmet” mentions Amherst numerous times, but not Williams. Is it just because the latter is modest?
Good questions. I was a philosophy major 20 years ago and loved every minute. AFAIK, the major has only gotten better since then. The department maintains a page with information of alums, but more could be done. We need an EphCOI for Eph philosophers.
I do not know why Amherst has a better reputation. Does it? Is it deserved?
By the way, if you are thinking about philosophy as a career, I have two words of advice: Backup plan! Philosophers are no better off than historians.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:19 am
I graduated as a Philosophy major in 2007 (and my career is doing fine, thankyouverymuch).
With the departure of Clarke, Muench, and Wilberding, and the possible departure of Mladenovic and Barry, the department has lost some incredible people.
As a freshman and sophomore, I got to choose from a very strong set of courses. During senior year, with so many professors gone or on leave, Philosophy majors who had progressed beyond the intro courses were rather starved for choices.
There are still great profs left in the Philosophy department, and they’ve recently hired someone new, but it is not nearly as strong as it was just a few years ago.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
David: Given your background, why are you not more philosophical?
July 30th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
It would probably be more helpful if people responded on the College Confidential site…
July 30th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
(d)avid writes in the thread above:
In brief, very good advice. I’d like to see a world where Williams provides a little bit of OCC handholding for the grad app process, and extracts this information in advance. The minimal fore-effort would save untold numbers of students…
Derek’s comment is filled with wisdom, as well, but think of it this way: exactly what would happen if any technical or vocational school had the poor placement rates of any of a variety of so-called “first tier” schools?
Note: compare philosophy placement from Urbana-Champaign to Harvard.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Mr. Thomas: It is from Champaign-Urbana to Harvard.
So is the entire top department staff leaving the College?
Is the department merely to represent a concentration instead?
July 30th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Clarification: compare placement between the graduates of the philosophy departments at each institution… or consider the relative absence of ‘top-tier’ institutions from compiled ratings of departments, taken via surveys of actual philosophy professors.
‘Mr.’ is unnecessary and generally not preferred.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
It is funny to consider the difference among the disciplines.
While, apparently, the poli sci departments will not provide the prospective students with the list of placements, econ departments will provide an incoming student with the complete and exaustive placement list which includes every student to have graduated from the department in the last 10 years. I speek this from experience.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Philo at Williams is great, and Ronit, Barry will be teaching at Williams at least next year (hopefully she’ll stick around longer after that as well). I think the department continues to be one of the hidden gems at Williams.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:12 am
On a related note: Williams website now has Mladenovic listed as an Associate Professor. I remember reading a while back that she was denied tenure–was the decision reversed? In that case, why is she leaving?
August 1st, 2007 at 2:27 am
Mr. Thomas, if it is not preferred, then how do you like it?
August 1st, 2007 at 8:05 am
I had heard that Mladenovic’s tenure decision was reversed and, as of now, she’s not leaving. This was just word of mouth, so no guarantees, but supported by the fact that she’s still listed in the course catalog as teaching classes this year.
August 1st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
I took Philosophy 101 (Prof. O’Connor) at Williams in the 70s and it was pretty dry. Sounds like things have improved since then.
Actually, some of my favorite courses were two History of Science courses taught by Prof. deBeaver, which if you know the subject, are actually philosophy courses. Fascinating as well incredibly useful in my current job as an IT industry analyst.
Whether you major in Philosophy or not, I think every Williams student should take a Philosophy or Religion course, as the ability to question assumptions is always a useful skill, no matter what you do after graduation.
August 1st, 2007 at 5:00 pm
@anon@0227: “Ken” is fine “among Ephs.”
Presuming you are Central European in origin and not an US-bred-Eph in Germany: it may be worth note to mention that “Mr.” in English, the kind of ‘politesse’ or ‘formality’ it represents, and many of the corresponding locutions and customs, have all largely fallen out of common usage in the United States. I am hardly ever referred to as “Mister” Thomas in the US, except when wearing a suit, flying on an airline (in which case I’m in a suit), or being talked to by someone who wants something from me.
Not to go into a lecture, but as example (zB): I just came from a meeting with a 65-year old CEO where there was no formality whatsoever: I wouldn’t have expected to refer to him as anything but “Jim” or him to call me anything but “Ken.” There’s little of the sense of ‘deference,’ if that is the word, implied by the use of “Herr Doktor Professor” or “Pane Professorje” or even “Pane Ingeniurje,” the last not requiring even licensing in many Slavic nations, but carrying quite a bit of ‘distinction.’ [Excuse the transliterations.]
The US phenomena are often referred to as “the erasure of distinction” and such; but the phenomena are changing in Europe and around the world, as well…
The university is officially the ‘University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign’, the metropolitan conurbanation, ‘Champaign-Urbana Metropolitan Area,’ and in popular discourse, both orderings of the cities seem to be in use.
August 1st, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Very philistinian of you Ken to have shed Mr. How does it feel?
Once upon a time, ephs ruled the glen and gave lords chase through the thicket, but now we seem to have shed something in favor of distraction? To what bride have we forsaken it?
Now we have the MR factor and the interpretation and application of the effects such factors have upon our population. Yes it appears we have a cross-MR factor within societies working towards declension. Yes the standard has changed and the demand for descent to a lower level or condition is indeed revealing. It appears that as one processes information to an inferior state, one manifest’s a distinct downward slope or bend perhaps? A philistinian understanding whereby forsaken, wailing and lamenting, one is steadfastly determined to win her. How amusing!
Ken, as one enunciates, do you clench your teeth when you “Eph” it?
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:12 am
Bizarre.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:12 am
As Homer Simpson would have it, “I wish someone would call me ‘Sir’ without following it with ‘you are making a scene.’”
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Having lived in Champaign, IL and Urbana, IL for a total of ten years, I can say that Ken’s assertion that both phrases are used (Urbana-Champaign and Champaign-Urbana) is correct.