Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Non terrorist Muslim extremist groups may not warrant a military action by the state, but they certainly warrant “some” action. How the heck would the state even know which extremist groups were a threat, without taking “some” action?

One does not need to join the military and fight in Iraq to join in this effort, and I never suggested that was the case.

Power projection is multi faceted. It does not mean that one needs to pick up a rifle to be involved in it. It is not a “vague” word, it is a “broad” word, meaning, a Williams grad could easily find an area in which they could serve in order to support this current war. The USA has been doing it since it ended the policy of isolationism. No shocker there. There are a million ways one could serve our government “projecting power” to help fight terrorist groups, or potential terrorist groups (extremist Muslims).

I’ll stand by my statement that we need more talented people involved, on a number of levels, serving our country in this (war) effort. Do you disagree? That is the subject of the debate rory and I are having. In effect, is this a war worth fighting? My point remains. More Williams graduates, and by de facto, graduates from other elite institutions, should be serving our country in some capacity fighting this war. You can play the semantics game all day long, but you either agree, or disagree. You can also claim that the thing has been so botched and confused that there is no “meaning” to any of it. Well, get more smart talented people involved (like Williams types) and fix it.

I apologize for taking up the thread on this. I am not sure if it is a debate that Nate would have enjoyed or had an opinion about or not. I did not know the man, the way many of you did.

The best way for me to honor the memory of those whom I have known that have been killed in this war, is to remember what they died fighting for. I know other Williams graduates currently fighting. I hope the nation does not get so angry about OIF, that it loses its will to win.

This will be my last comment on this matter on this thread.

Semper athlete

The war is not described as against “extremist muslims”. Nor do I believe there should be a war against extremist muslims (only terrorists warrant any sort of action by the state).

You again are claiming that vague words that are hard to disagree with (”power projection” this time) indicates some level of support. In this case, I don’t even agree…terrorism is designed to combat the projection of power via small, guerrilla tactic attacks. Projections of power are, to an extent, their bread and butter. I’d be happy to support a smart policy, but “power projection” (what is that exactly?) is not smart policy.

If there’s one thing we know about Al-Qaeda it is this: it thrives in the chaos of battle. War and similar policies lead to fertile ground for them. So as we fight terrorist groups, we’re helping foster them because our policies are piss poor.

We are in a war. But we shouldn’t be. And its a war–much like Vietnam–that highly educated elites led us into (kinda like…oh…I don’t know…Vietnam?). Terrorism is best combatted not via war, but via confidence and smart planning; not power projection, but smart use of power.

As an aside, I dont like the “or you can go into investment banking” that is often the only other comparison made. I’m not an investment banker. The majority of williams graduates, in fact, aren’t investment bankers. overrepresented, yes, but not actually common. I stayed in the academy. My good friends are working in non-profits or teaching.

The words mean you support the effort, and you support sending men and women into harms way to combat extremist muslims in the middle east. You may not think it is being waged the right way, and you may not like the fact that, or the way that, we projected power in Iraq, but you support the overall power projection to protect our interests and our security.
If you support projecting power, and are high speed enough to go to Williams, then you can find a role in it, or you can go into investment banking……. nothing abstract about that.
You can call it a “war on tactic” if you like, I too, happen to agree a lot with what Ret General Odom has to say about Iraq.

I will point out however, that extremist groups are not a tactic. We need good, smart people working in fields that find, thwart, impead, alter and kill groups and ideologues that want to destroy America. Williams has some of those people.

I do not at all feel foolish for pointing out the fact that we are in a war, and that we need more elites serving in it. Smart capable people will help us win. That is the practical reality.

I don’t want to get into a back and forth about this on a thread about a noble and kind gesture by the team, so I’ll just say:

I can also get everyone to agree that we all support “good public schools”, but what does that actually mean? In other words– the support for the “war” in the abstract is little more than saying “why, yes, I do like ice cream!”. No kidding. It is only worth considering in its practical reality.

Hence- Most people support the war I am referring to. That is what semper athlete is all about. That is why a great guy, who went to your school, gave his life, and that is why others everyday are giving theirs. Iraq will be a memory, and we will still be in this war. Bet on it.

Cheers.