Wed 15 Aug 2007
Reader Lionel Hutz notes this article.
Am I really moving out of Williamstown in protest over the turmoil in the Williams College athletic department? Well, no, but the nastiness aroused by the firing of the nation’s top Division 3 track coach, the dumping of the women’s golf coach and the angry resignation of the men’s golf coach is cause for the pleasure I will have in leaving.
Yes, after 22 years in a house my wife and I thought would be the last one we ever owned we are selling to the college and moving to Albany. We are, in effect, being kicked out by Williams, which is planning to construct new, lighted football facilities across the street and is apparently attempting to buy every house within sight.
Meanwhile, the college is losing Ralph White and Cathy and Rick Pohle, and as two contributors to Ephblog have expressed it, “I feel as though I am in mourning for these coaches who have left, for their athletes and for Williams,” and “It seems as though we add another name (of departing coaches) every month. This can’t go on, can it?” Williams rides roughshod over anything in its way, and I’ll leave it to the blind alumni to defend the college’s actions.
In situations like this, the College is always at a disadvantage since it can’t defend itself. Is Director of Public Affairs Jim Kolesar going to issue a news release claiming that women golfers petitioned the athletic department for a more experienced coach? No.
EphBlog: Blind alumni defending the College since 2003!
As far as I can tell, the turmoil in the Athletic Department started in 2003, with the failure to defend Barnard, followed by his dismissal. Once folks like Assistant Athletic Director Lisa Melendy realized that they could get away with firing a veteran coach, they decided (correctly) that they could do whatever they wanted.
First they came for Barnard, but I said nothing because I was not conservative, stiff-necked, old-fashioned coach. Then they came for Ralph White.
Or did all this trouble really start when Harry Sheehy ‘75 became Athletic Director in 2000?
By the way, could someone provide more details on what happened with golf? If Pohle resigned angrily, then there out to be an angry resignation letter. Send it to us.
The Williams town-gown philosophy was, I think, best expressed to me in a note from the college president, Morton Schapiro. I had asked if the college could keep open in the winter a walking path alongside Cole Field.
Schapiro replied that he would try to determine if such action “is feasible for us.” Williams operates like the Vatican — the Vatican is in Italy but not a part of it; Williams is in Williamstown but is not a part of it. All considerations involve “us” and “them.” The college, like Bill Gates, does good with its wealth but only if its actions serve a public relations policy that benefits Williams.
If Williams is the Vatican, is Morty the Pope? Just asking! Whole article is a fun read.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:04 am
“Is Director of Public Affairs Jim Kolesar going to issue a news release claiming that women golfers petitioned the athletic department for a more experienced coach? No.”
Well, did they?
August 15th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Lionel, many thanks to you and your wife for all you have given the college, the town, and the students. I hope that Albany will work out well for you but that you’ll also be able to return to the Purple Valley from Albany often. You sound as though you have a good new location picked out.
I can’t apologize officially for the college because I have no official status other than being an alumna, but I do apologize unofficially for the ways your service was not graciously applauded (and was not awarded with a valedictory sports pass, as it should have been) and for the ways the incursions into/demolition of your neighborhood were insensitively handled.
As you’ve learned from getting to know so many Williams students and staff members over the years, Williams is far more than the petty, insensitive actions of some of its administrators.
It’s “just” from me, but I hereby declare you and your wife honorary Ephs, with many thanks for your contributions to our community.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:42 am
That’s a nice heartfelt (if a bit overdone) goodbye to “Lionel Hutz.” Unfortunately, he’s just the reader who pointed out the article in question by Ray Warner.
August 15th, 2007 at 9:56 am
It should be noted that Lionel’s leaving Williamstown is not the subject of this matter - Ray Warner’s is.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Just reading the Berkshire Eagle article — hmm, sounds like Williams. Hauteur certainly comes with number 1, I guess. As much as I love my alma mater, I know her mark as well.
I am reminded of how as alumni we are expected to give money, but not have a say (at all, unless we are one of the handpicked few — and despite being given lip service with a rigged yearly ‘alumni representative’ election) in how the college runs. Blind alumni indeed.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Either give without influence or refrain from giving without influence. Them are the terms unless one is a block buster giver. I choose mindlessly the former but reserve the right to be a little nettlesome from time to time - which action incidentally does not precipitate a rejection or return of any part of my gifts.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
“The college, like Bill Gates, does good with its wealth but only if its actions serve a public relations policy that benefits Williams.”
Isn’t this EXACTLY what college should be doing?
As always, here is a useful quote by Milton Friedman:
“[...] here is one and only one social responsibility of business - to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game, which is to say, engages in open and free competition, without deception or fraud.”
I’m so glad the college is run by an economist.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
“This can’t go on, can it?” Williams rides roughshod over anything in its way, and I’ll leave it to the blind alumni to defend the college’s actions.”
Well, too all the insiders who are starting to notice because of this latest round of insane irresponsible growth and high profile athletic SNAFU, I say… WELCOME ABOARD THE TRAIN WRECK! The townies and the balanced alums have been waiting for you.
The college is out of control. Williams lost its sense of balance long ago. The way they treat their employees is just nuts. You think it is bad for the coaches who have a high profile job and a voice, imagine what it is like for someone in food services?
The image Williams is creating through all the construction (read destruction) tells the tale of an institution which has failed to maintain any sense of balance with the community. It has been like a train wreck in slow motion. We have been watching Williams self destruct for the past decade!
August 15th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Wait … so this guy is leaving just because he doesn’t want to sit through a year of construction? And he’s angry at Williams for offering to buy his house, when they had no obligation to do so? I don’t get it.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Hey — A look at the Williams website shows Rick is once listed as the golf coach — did he rescind his resignation? It doesn’t appear as if they gave Cathy her job back….whats going on?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
I don’t understand why Williams is the agent of evil. The source of complaints on this blog seem to be:
1) They did not re-new the contract of a successful track coach.
2) They did not re-new the contract of a less successful golf coach.
3) The golf coach’s husband resigned as a result.
4) The expansion of the football stadium/field requires more space, so the college is buying up neighboring houses.
5) The new theater and student center are big.
I just don’t see why this demonstrates an administration gone wild. I suspect that PTC is correct about shoddy treatment of staff, but that certainly hasn’t been documented on this blog (file under “things we’d like to see”).
Are people getting worked up because it is summer and there isn’t anything else to get worked up about?
August 15th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
If you are a staff member, or it seems a coach, you are treated like second class citizens. Williams administrators do not care about the little people. The turnover in many areas is very high because we are not treated equally and have no say.
Morty will say hello and smile but you can tell he does not really care about you, unless you have a lot of money to give.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
One should look to one’s family and dear friends for love, not to one’s workplace and coworkers, from which and whom it cannot be reasonably expected to be forthcoming.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
The deck is stacked: in the long run, we’ll all be dead, and the college will own everything.
If you don’t like college towns don’t retire to one.
If you don’t like college jobs, find another.
If you don’t like college administrators, you’re not alone.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
It is acknowledged that in the long run I’ll be dead (and the long run has almost arrived); I usually like college towns (some more than others); I’m retired so I don’t need a job; I tend to find fault with authority of almost all stripes. So be it! Now I’m on record. No surprises here.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
I have been working at Williams for nearly 10 years and I would bet that neither President Shapiro nor Dean Wagner have any idea who I am since I do not have money to contribute to the college nor am I am faculy member.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Having worked in a number of college jobs and gotten to know a range of college employees fairly well, I can’t say that I wholeheartedly agree that Williams treats its employees poorly. Sure, there are problems…with the move to Parkesy some snack bar employees kind of got screwed, having to work super long hours while dealing with new equipment. However, I think these sorts of problems are fairly standard for an organization undergoing change (which Williams pretty constantly is doing). Obviously all of us in the Williams community (students, staff, townies, and employees) should be aware of these problems and work to adress them, but I think maligning Williams’ name is neither productive nor honest. Williams pays most of its staff more than competitively, and provides an incredibly safe, supportive, and friendly environment. Sure, the wages in Dining Services could be better, maybe even should be better. However, the College does have to watch its bottom line and the wages in Dining Services (and most other College positions) –from my experience–are better than comparable non-college positions.
I’m glad that people engage in these issues…however, as an ex-College employee, I hate the tone much of this complaining takes. In my experience, the majority of College staff is very content with their job, and well, those who aren’t should try working in another area of the country. For all of its problems, the Williamstown area is a pretty great place to be for students, staff, and townies alike relative to just about anywhere else.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
ce seems to bring sense into the conversation (that obviously has no place…). For those wanting improvement from the college, there are two questions:
-how does the college fare compared to its peers (Does the President of Amherst know the names of the dining staff? Wesleyan?)
-what should the college and its administration be expected to do?
I do believe the college has a hard time justifying low wages (what are the wages? are they low?) considering its building spree. I do believe that Morty should not be expected to remember the names and faces of 700+ staff, 300 faculty, and 2000 students. I also do not believe Dean Wagner should be expected to remember the staff (Wagner’s job, after all, is faculty oriented, not staff).
Would it be nice were that possible? Of course.
What I’d love to know, as an alumni who doesn’t have the money to influence policy but whose name (for better or worse…) Morty seems to remember, is if Williams is being newly imperial in its attitude toward the town (other than Ray, are other community members being bought out?) and is the wage scale for staff workers reasonable? Do they get the opportunity to take classes or receive other college-specific benefits? What do they want?
August 15th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
I have been contributing to Williams almost continuously for 50 years, have lived in Williamstown for the last seven and easily accept the reality that it is very doubtful that President Shapiro or any Williams Dean can link my name with my face.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Apologies to Ray and Lionel for my misreading of who the author is. I’m not up to speed with my eyes yet for close reading details after eye surgery last month.
I do mean it, though: I appreciate what Ray has done for Williams and I wish the social niceties had been handled better. Part of the business of providing a liberal arts education should be modeling good human relations (with students, with staff, with volunteers, etc.).
August 15th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Frank, as you may remember, President Baxter prided himself on regnizing old alum. Once he went up to a fellow on Main St. and shook his hand saying, ” I rember you. You’re Anson Piper, class of such and such. What are you doing these days?” Piper responded, “I am chairman of your Spanish Department, Sir.”
August 15th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Williams doesn’t seem so evil to me. I’m sure higher wages would be nice and it would be swell if Morty could remember everyone’s name, but I’m not surprised he doesn’t. (In my view, he’s a far sight better than Hank Payne, who didn’t answer a pointed question I asked at an Alumni Weekend while clearly thinking I hadn’t noticed.
But back to the subject of Williams being evil. In comparison to my chosen profession (high tech), it’s pretty good. I worked at a company which ultimately laid off more than 80% of its employees over the course of five years (from 33,000 down to 5,000). In 35 years, I’ve survived 48 layoffs and been hit by two. I’ve had my pay cut by 50% within a year. I’ve been threatened with a knife (an irate user) and had other unpleasant workplace experiences. Not renewing the contracts of several employees seems mild to me.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Am I really naive here? How can any property owner get upset at a policy of aggressively buying property that he owns? Everyone who sells sells 100% by choice, right? And they sell because the college makes a good or great offer, right? Especially if they feel they are selling to an evil agent, they sell at a premium, right?
I mean, if I owned a house near the football field and wanted to live in town there another 20 years, it feels like I’d have more cause to get mad at my neighbors who sold out, not their buyer. If anyone.
I didn’t have the benefit of much of Morty’s econ tutelage, so someone ought to clue me in, here.
August 15th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
“cause for the pleasure I will have in leaving”
Could it be the $400,000 (a tidy “financial profit”) that the Williams College President and Trustees paid for the Warners’ “two-story Williamstown house”?
(I wonder what use the college will make of this and any other Meacham Street residences it eventually purchases. Offices? Co-ops?)
August 15th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Not to my surprise, those defending seem to think life is all about money. Those who are angry at the college for pushing people out, think life is more than just about money. Williams culture, aspires to what, service, community, or money? hmhmhmhm. All three, one would hope, with a lean towards communtiy.
It is not about “Williams being evil” it is about Williams being responsible. It should be, and used to be, a balanced approach. It is not anymore, and people have a right to be angry. You all may think it is ok to treat someone poorly just because you give them some cash? It is not.
The movie “indecent proposal” comes to mind. Hey, the guy got a million bucks, what is the harm? Well worth it, right?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:14 am
Ah for the days before Putney, when property were inalienable, the embarrassment of wealth, entirely different.
August 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Oh the other end of this, it is worth adding that Ray has been on the College-critical end of the town-gown relationship see-saw for closing on three decades. The article above is closer to a “closing shot” than an independent account of a recent event.
I sympathize with Ray (and PTC’s) perspective in some ways: but my rubric would not be that the College acts in its own self-interest (which is self-evident), but that specific individuals’ agendas and actions simply cannot be taken at face value, as in the College’s best long-term interests.
We can imagine, for instance, that “the College” worked more co-operatively with the town and region to manage resources and development. That could certainly be a PR boon– and, as well, the goodwill it might provoke in the Ray Warners of the world might just shave millions off of costs when the College considers asking for zoning and codes waivers.
… …
August 17th, 2007 at 9:02 am
If the college wasn’t there, Ray Warner would be complaining about how the dairy farm that abutted his land had cut down a beloved tree in the pasture he had gotten used to looking at, thereby ruining his retirement, not to mention that they just don’t build stone walls like they used to…
August 17th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Very funny. Get the bulldozer out, I’m bored.
Collegiality consumes our customer’s concerns regarding decorum. For every action there is a reaction. I expect this every time. Change is uncomfortable. Get used to it.
Labor relations strained. Give me a break.
I want my cravat ironed immediately.
Where’s my tea?
Remember, this is not the Vatican, this is Williams and it is in Williamstown. There are no coneheads here demanding obedience and offering salvation. It is an international academic community that no longer serves the local interests. It may be rural, but it is not pastoral. It is progressively mad with excitement.
Go Ephs!
August 17th, 2007 at 9:46 am
“There are no coneheads here demanding obedience and offering salvation. It is an international academic community that no longer serves the local interests. It may be rural, but it is not pastoral. It is progressively mad with excitement.”
This is an interesting point and one I am sure is not only an issue at Williams and Williamstown. The once isolated, rural academic institution that catered to the local and at best regional populations is much more than that, a change that has had to have had a huge impact on town-gown issues. Middlebury strikes me as being in a similar situation, perhaps Grinnell, and other highly selective liberal arts colleges in rural areas that now draw their students from all 50 states and internationally face the same issues. Dartmouth may have expreienced this, too.
While these rural hamlets are attractive for reasons not related to attaining academic excellence, especially in a global context, how far can a Williams, Middlebury, and any institution that aspire to being a truly national and international institution go with the constraints one finds in these beautiful, but limiting locations?
August 17th, 2007 at 9:53 am
The insensitivity shown here by many commenters is bad news for Williams. No one seems to care that the college is pushing the town and the townies around. That did not work too well for Yale, and it won’t turn out to be in the best interest of Williams, either. In the home I was raised, treating people less advantaged than you like crap and being a bully was not acceptable behavior. It is not just about common decency, ethics and watching out for the little guys, it is about the welfare of the institution.
Williamstown would be nothing without Williams? Excpet maybe one of the most beautifull places on the plantet… in the Berkshires.
I have to ask, what would Williams be without Williamstown? A nasty town gown relationship, not a good plan for the well being of any small town College.
“Very funny. Get the bulldozer out, I’m bored.”
Uh huh. Nothing funny about it.
August 17th, 2007 at 10:21 am
With all due respect to PTC. It is not out of rudeness or callous behavior that these missives were posted. They are not meant to offend thee. It is unfortunate that you take umbrage to our musings.
We do care about the “little guy”, the welfare of our institution, and the future outcome of Williams, Williamstown and the planet. You take an unearned interest in the assumption that we deliberately offend thee. How interesting. I believe our very presence offends thee. Your demands are unfounded. You are attempting to steal something that has not been given thee. I have not personally insulted you but pehaps if you make yourself known to me, I can and then earn your disdain properly.
August 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I doubt CE worked “blue collar” in a dept at the college recently, if ever. This person has no clue WTF is going on. Dining service??? lol. CE is actually arguing that the job security and pay is good in the dinning service. Jaysus!
Just out of curiosity ce, what dept did you work in, what acapacity, and what time frame?
August 17th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Anon above- You have no respect, so why jest to give any? The very tone of your obnoxious and elitist response to my post, says it all. Disdain? Brother, I feel sorry for you, not disdainful.
I have friends or relatives working in every dept at Williams. Every one. Faculty, food services, B&G… etc etc etc. My dad is an alum. You simply do not have the historical perspective, friends, or the sense of community, to have a clue what I am talking about.
August 17th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Anons– it is hard to tell you apart and trace the conversation.
@anon@1329: I’ve heard some stories over the years, but I do not presume to have the depth that would come from your experience. Might you, if you have the time, tell a few tales and share your perspective?
August 17th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Townies need to understand that without the college no one would ever know WILLIAMStown even existed.
Get over it and be thankful the college is here.
August 18th, 2007 at 8:18 am
It may be true, but how rude and arrogant to say it!
August 18th, 2007 at 11:14 am
I agree. Better to say that the if college wasn’t there, you’d just have a different set of villains to worry about. The devil you know and the devil you don’t are both devils, after all, adn there are no Edens out there.
August 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Frank, but it is not true that Williamstown only exists by the whim of the College. It is a two way street. Such ascertations are foolishly arrogant. It is telling of how poorly informed, lacking in perspective, and foolishly self indulged the elites in America have become.
Rayh is vetting his rightful frustration at the schools arrogant self destructive behavior. We are talking about the importance and power of a small liberal arts school, nothing more.
Once upon a time the college and the town lived in much better harmony than they do today. Williams wants to have it both ways… run like a business, but with the tax free status of a college. It cannot, should not, and will not enjoy such a status forever if it keeps pushing the little guy around.
One might say that you cannot fight the college. The truth is that you cannot fight city hall. If this gets bad enough (and I suspect it will) the relationship will get to a point where populists who are angry about this situation win key roles and a majority in the town and local representative government. Williams does not control the law, or the way in which the law is applied. It is too bad that the College does not see that there is a harmony in these things.
The suggestion that the underclass needs villians in its life is so cliche and laughable, that all I can say in response is… bla, bla bla…. Let them eat cake!
By the way, your new student center looks and feels like an airport! lol!
August 18th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Suburbanites like airports - as far as they are concerned airports are central and necessary to our culture. At any rate the theatre complex is aesthetically worse than the student center - and even worse in its application - more and larger theatrical venues running concurrently mean suburban-like crowds and traffic. I guess that is why we have a suburban-like parking garage. Suburban-like library, faculty offices and football stadium to come? We’ll see. Suburbanites go home!
August 18th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
I’ve worked at the College for the past four years, in departments including Dining Services. Look at the wages made by Dining Services at Williams. Compare those wages to comparable food services positions elsewhere (ie: not mezze). Compare the working conditions to comparable food service institution elsewhere. I’m not arguing that Dining Services (or other Williams departments) are perfect or compare favorably 100%…I’m arguing that for the most part, a position in Dining Services is significantly more desirable than similar comparable positions.
The fact is there are few places that offer great job security now and days. I don’t think this is a good thing. However, as an ex-employee of the College, I also don’t agree that Williams is solely responsible for fixing these problems. Williams’ first priority is as an educational institution, and YES, the welfare of the town and local residence is important to Williams’ mission. Maybe you wish that Williams should be using the 110 million for the new library to boost employee wages. However, that’s neither realistic nor reasonable. I am not arguing that Williams should not worry more about the town and local resident’s welfare (I think Williams should). I argue with your implication that Williams doesn’t care about the town or residents. I believe that Williams cares very much, and does a hell of a lot more for the town than it simply “has” to. Yes, to some extent Williams is run like a corporation. However, for most extents and purposes Williams is an extremely benevolent institution to the local community.
PTC–where have YOU worked in the College?
August 18th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
The anomaly surrounding the preceding exchanges surrounding the “Vatican” (?), reminds me that what we need is more data on solar and inter-galactic fields entering our planetary system and how this may affect human behavior.
Perhaps this will explain the underlying tensions we can observe globally.
There is a uncertain perceived uneasiness throughout human intercourse.
Can one not observe the increasing irrationality and anxiety throughout every sector?
Let us think on this and return at a more proper time to reflect and let us give ourselves a moment to reconsider our emotional positions.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Wacko!
August 18th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Frank:
Where is your sense of humor?
Yet to solicit, really now.
August 19th, 2007 at 4:36 am
Where is yours?
August 19th, 2007 at 9:23 am
CE- are you serious? Wow. I have friends who have worked in food services for years, who say it not good to work there. They say the conditions have gotten a lot worse, with a change in management that occurred. They only keep working there because of time invested, and are trying as hard as they can to change departments.
I have never worked there, so if you say they do not do the part time hire thing to avoid compensation, and that they do not overwork the staff, push older people out to hire cheaper, and you work there, then hey, that is your opinion, not theirs. You would be the only person I know who has worked there for a long time as a cook or on the line worker that thinks it is a good department. Well run, well managed, with the employees in mind?
Anyhow CE, if you think the College has been responsible about its growth in the last decade, then you are definitely the only townie with that opinion that I know of. I do not know a single townie, not one, who thinks that Williams is being responsible with all the new growth. But hey, if you think Williamstown should look and feel like Greenwich CT, or some yuppie haven in Jersey, then I would say you are a townie different than any I have ever met, since I started hanging around Spring St and Cole Ave at age ten in 1976.
It is just odd to hear from a person who is a townie, who actually believes Williams has done a good job with town gown relations in the last decade.
You need to spend more time at the legion my man! I’ll buy the next beer! Cheers.
The parking garage looks like Wapole, I agree Frank. And the Theater… why even bother to mention it. Talk about taking one of the most beautfull structres in New England killing it.
Holy yupppie destruction Mc Mansion make over Batman!
August 19th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
ex-townie…so I’m sadly not going to be able to take you up on your offer.
But yea, I don’t think the College’s management of town-gown relations has been perfect over the last decade or so…I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as you make it out to be (and I might put out that the vast majority of townies I know seem to fall more into my camp than yours–that Williams isn’t perfect and should be working harder for the town’s benefit, but is largely doing more good than bad and far more good than they are legally obligated to do).
Do you really think the old theater was one of the most beautiful buildings in New England? I thought it was pretty mediocre on the outside and in (and never seemed especially functional–too small). Furthermore, if you have to say one thing about the College’s recent building spree, I would not compare them to McMansions–for better or for worse, the new theater, science labs, and student center are all pretty architecturally unique. Personally, I like the theater and the science labs a lot (from the outside)…I’m much cooler about the student center (although it’s beautiful inside). But hey, that’s just my opinion.
August 19th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
CE- The old Theater facade was the post card for Williamstown. Not beautifull? You like the new one? Not even hard core eph fanatics like the new one better. Are you a plant?
You must have a different set of townie friends. Blue collar?
August 19th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
this thread has gotten semi-out of hand…ce is a plant, meanwhile because perennial discontent Ray Warner writes a complaint, Williamstown is being compared to Greenwich CT or a “yuppie haven” in NJ (do you mean Princeton? I grew up there…so watch yourself:)
I’ll repeat my question, because I am actually curious to hear an answer: what are specific grievances of williams staff workers. What is the dining services wage scale? How does it compare? is there a union (or unionizing effort)? How have these wage scales, etc. changed recently? What future projects by Williams is the town frustrated by? Are the current students different from former students in how they interact with the town? etc.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
CE- You don’t’ think that the current structures have the feel of an architectural stamp? Have you been inside of Paresky? You don’t think that place looks and feels like a hospital or an airport? Really?
Mcmcanisons is term used to describe a lot of the new construction in hot spots like the Cape, or the Vinyard etc. Sure, they all “look” different, but have the feel of something built from a mold that lacks a sense of balance with the landscape around it.
Do you honestly think that the new theater and parking garage blend in well with the landscape?
I have seen people on this blog defend these buildings in the name of functionality, but seldom if ever in the name of style, beauty or porportion.
You were raised in Williamstown?
I guess we can call it a matter of taste, but for me, the mccmansions label fits.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Rory- There is nothing wrong with Princeton, but it is not Williamstown. We are talking about a clash of values here on this thread, so it is fair game to be parochial when referring to small town v suburban ethics on the subject of town gown and the construction around us. No offense against Princeton, I just would not want to live there, nor do I want it coming to live with me.
Like the author, we may as well all move to Albany!
Like old farmer said, “Vermont without farms could be a good place, but it would not be Vermont, and although there are plenty of good places, there is only one Vermont.”
As far as the specifics go, it would be interesting to take a look at the numbers… scale over the years.. What a blue collar worker made working for Williams in the 70s/80s compared to what they make today, what % of employees were full time help with benefits compared to today etc. What % of the land the College has developed, how fast that has happened… What kind of previous town reactions there have been to College growth. I just do not have access to those records, if they even exist. It would make for an interesting academic excersise, for a student to pull in all such data, do anonymous interviews with the blue collar employees, etc. One could also get such a feel pretty easily if they took a look at the way such things are being managed, and if the style has changed in the last decade to hire and reward those who look out more for the bottom line.
I agree Rory, we are talking about personal feelings and experiences on the thread, without any hard data. However, town and gown is often about emotion, always a fun subject, and David lead us into this discussion with personal account from an emotional article by a person “who was kicked out of town by Williams” after “living 22 years in a house he thought he would retire in with his wife”, so…
August 19th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
No, I am not a “plant” (whatever that would be–plant from where??). No, I don’t think the buildings have a feel of an architectural “stamp.” I don’t think Paresky looks or feels at ALL like a hospital or an airport. Not 1%. Maybe it’s a little “ski-lodgy” but that would probably be my biggest complaint about its inside (and yes, I do know what the term “McMansions” denotes, incidentally, and I disagree that the term fits). I do feel like they fit well with the surroundings–the garage leads gracefully from Greylock to the new theater, and for a structure of its size, is incredibly low profile. The theater has beautiful curved lines that lead to impressive views of the mountains (both inside and out), and also hides its size well. Both buildings are built with materials that integrate the surroundings scenery with the surrounding buildings. The theater is simultaneously a bold architectural statement, and a subtle gesture of function and ease. I would personally have preferred that it had been less bold (which I suspect is where your criticisms of the structure are derived from), but its grandeur really doesn’t bother me. I think what impresses me most is how the architect (Williams Rawn in I’m not mistaken) has managed to built a uniquely new building without losing all of the feel of the original theater.
August 19th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Let’s get real. The theater is ugly.
August 19th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Fair enough CE, if those are your opinions.
Next time you go into Paresky and walk around, think “Hospital” and “Airport”. I do not think you can miss it if it is pointed out to you and you take another look.
August 19th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
CE- You are an X townie who worked at a variety of part time positions at the college for 4 years?
Out of curiosity, were you a student?
August 19th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Is this a dating service?
August 20th, 2007 at 12:43 am
nope, but I’ll go into it and think “hospital” and “airport” and see if what you say resonates. Next time you’re around the theater, walk around it and look at the curves and see if you reconsider. Deal?