Mon 11 Feb 2008
Want some insight into how the Williams “admissions process” works for elite athletes? Start here.
The injury couldn’t have come at a worse time for St. John’s Prep football player Danny Vaczy, who broke his foot on the first day of football camp in Maine last August.
The 6-foot-3, 255-pound lineman had been counted on to anchor the Eagles’ line last fall, but wound up missing most of his senior season. Finally, he returned late in the regular season and wound up starting both ways on Thanksgiving morning vs. Xaverian, playing offensive guard and nose tackle.
Not only was it extremely frustrating to spend so much time on the sidelines, but Vaczy figured it would kill his chances to play at the college level.
That didn’t happen, though. The Peabody native will spend the next four years on the gridiron for Williams College, following in St. John’s Prep tradition.
Former Prep teammates Trevor Powers, who will captain the 2008 Ephs squad, and freshman Tim Kiely are already fixtures in the Williams lineup.
“I went for my visit last month, and it was the first time I had seen the school,” said Vaczy. “I saw Kiely, but didn’t get to spend time with him because he had a wrestling match. Powers was one of the kids chosen to give a speech to the recruits.
“I honestly didn’t think college teams would be interested in me because I didn’t play at all until the last three games, and really only a lot against Xaverian. Coach (Jim) O’Leary called in five or six of us interested in playing college ball, and right after that I started getting calls. I owe a lot to him for taking time to tell schools about me.”
Once the process of looking at schools began, Vaczy was able to narrow his choices down to Georgetown, Wesleyan and Williams. He had originally thought about Boston College, but didn’t think he could play there.
As soon as he made his official visit to Wesleyan, though, things started happening quickly for him. Williams head coach Mike Whalen offered him a chance to attend school there that very weekend.
“I gave Coach Whalen my word, and we had to make sure my application went through without any problems,” said Vaczy.
Do you think that anyone in the admissions office even read Vaczy’s essays? If so, why? Was there anything that he could have possibly written that would have changed the admissions decision from Yes to No? I doubt it.
Best part?
Vaczy, who has a 4.13 grade point average, intends to major in business or law. He played rugby at the Prep, but will throw the discus in spring track this year.
“I’m just glad that everything has worked out so well,” he said.
Me too. The law and business majors at Williams are amazing. I have no doubt that Coach Whalen told Vaczy all about them.
Rant follows:
Let’s start with the finger-pointing! Who is at fault here?
1) Not Vaczy! He does not make the rules of the elite college admissions process. He just plays by them. I have no doubt that I would like Vaczy and his teammates. Football players and Marines are Ephs of a feather. If he and his future-Eph classmates from St. John’s are interested, I would love to host them for a nice lunch in Cambridge sometime. Especially fun would be an event in April at which I would try to convince the regular decision admittees to choose Williams.
2) Not Coach Whalen! He does not make the rules of the elite college admissions process. He just plays by them. The fact that there are dozens of students in the class of 2008 at St. John’s with better grades than Vaczy’s is not Whalen’s problem.
3) If anyone, President Schapiro is at fault. He, in fact, does make the rules. If he wanted, he could stop giving coaches like Whalen carte blanche in the admissions process. He could ensure that the admissions office actually evaluated applicants like Vaczy. (After evaluating him, they might still admit him, but at least the process would not be the charade that it appears to be today.) He could decrease the (excessive?) weight placed on athletic ability. He could lower the number of “tips,” perhaps in conjunction with other NESCAC schools as was done a few years ago, perhaps unilaterally.
Finally, lest I be accused of anti-athlete bias, please note that I am pro-athlete and anti-tip. Indeed, no one has done more than I to debunk the anti-athlete bias of the College’s 2001 “Report on Varsity Athletics.”
For those who are unfamiliar with how the elite admissions work, Creating a Class: College Admissions and the Education of Elites by Mitchell Stevens is a nice place to start. See here for an overview. On athletics:
The subject on which Stevens said he was most surprised was athletics. For all the talk about preferences for minority or legacy applicants, Stevens said that the preference that counted the most was sports ability. There are some anecdotes that will reinforce the stereotypes of many academics about jocks. Some coaches would, with some regularity, push for the admission of athletes who were not top students. Admissions officers in the book are particularly critical of the “helmet sports” — football and hockey.
But Stevens also discusses coaches who consistently would come to the admissions office with lists of desired applicants who were as strong in the library as on the field. There were many coaches he saw who put enough emphasis on recruiting the right kind of mental talent that their lists were people who would have been admitted without extra help.
“I would say one of the largest intellectual surprises of my career was to be able to set aside the notion that sports are a pollutant on the main business of higher education and to see sports as part of the business of higher education,” Stevens said. For many academics, “the notion that sports pollutes is deeply ingrained in your identity,” but that’s not really the case, he said.
While admissions officers nationally complain about fending off coaches, Stevens notes in his book that coaches attract much of the (academic) talent because they are constantly on the road, looking for high schoolers who might fit in well. “Coaches may be the people who bug you, but they are also a really valuable part of the whole recruitment machinery,” he said.
How do things work at Williams? Coach Whalen has 14 “tips” in each class, spots he can allocate to (almost) any applicant that he wants, applicants who would not be accepted at Williams if he did not tip them. These tips must meet a minimal set of standards with respect to their academic ranks, but, after that, Whalen makes the decision. If he wants you, you’re in.
Whalen has relationships with high school football coaches, especially coaches at academically serious football powers like St. John’s. If someone like O’Leary tells him that Vaczy could contribute at Williams, despite not playing much his senior year in high school, then Whalen is likely to believe him. O’Leary (or someone at St. John’s) has been sending Whalen good players for years. They wouldn’t want to mislead anyone from Williams now. So, once Whalen checks that Vaczy’s academics are “good enough,” on to the magic tip list he goes.
There have been changes in admissions policies in recent years.
Several years ago, the 11-member New England Small College Athletic Conference (Nescac), which includes Amherst and Williams, adopted systematic restrictions on recruiting.
“The real danger was in not acknowledging that we give preferential treatment to athletes,” Parker said. “It engendered a corrosive cynicism. When it was on the table exactly what we do, it wasn’t as bad as some faculty thought.”
Broadly, Division III colleges are separated into those that use what is customarily called a slots system and those that do not. Slots are reserved for athletes in each freshman class, a specific number that typically represents 15 percent to 30 percent of those admitted. Colleges that do not have a slots system may admit more, or fewer, recruited athletes, but there is no set number.
The New England Small College Athletic Conference uses slots, although its members refer to them as athletic factors. Parker said the maximum number of athletic factors was determined by the number of varsity teams each college fields in the conference.
The formula multiplies the number of teams by two, then adds 14 if there is a football team. A typical total is in the 70’s; Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan University have agreed to a limit of 66. Parker said that as recently as the late 1990’s, Amherst was admitting 96 athletes.
That would be Tom Parker ‘69, former director of admission at Williams and the man, some say, most responsible for Williams athletic dominance in the 1990’s, especially in football. Ever since the Report on Varsity Athletics, Williams has raised the standards for tipped athletes, especially so called “low band” ones, meaning students with academic ranks below 5. The Report notes:
The academic ratings of incoming Williams students – both athletically tipped and all other students – have risen over the past decade. In ’90 and ’91, the average academic ratings for tipped athletes were in the 5.7-5.8 range. For ’92 through ’98, they hovered around 5.5. For ‘99-’00, they averaged about 5.0. Meanwhile, the academic ratings of all other students rose from 3.6 in ’90 and ’91 to 2.8 in ’00, improving fairly steadily. The number of “low-band athletic admits” – that is, athletes with academic ratings below 6.0 – has decreased by 38% from previous levels for the classes of 2003-’05. In the class of 2006, the Athletic Department reports that only 10 “low-band” athletes were admitted, in accordance with our President’s commitment to make our athletes representative of our student body.
I believe that this trend has continued, that there are fewer and fewer low band athletic tips. The 14 football tips in the class of 2010 averaged 1405 on the SATs. So, Coach Whalen has it much harder than Dick Farley ever did. Former Baseball Coach Dave Barnard provides many insider details.
Critics may argue that if “protects,” or ultra high band admits (roughly 1450-1520 SAT range), were included then Williams would fall more in line with the group (the number of athletic priority slots would increase from 66 to 81 if you consider protects to be half of a tip as admissions does). Those numbers were correctly not considered because applicants at that level here are so called “academic admits” (accepted without regard to attributes) at every other school in the league including Amherst. In the last couple of years for instance, 2 baseball recruits rated as “protects” at Williams were “academic admits” at both Harvard and Dartmouth – I know this because the respective Ivy coaches were not aware of the players in question prior to their acceptance.
…
Getting back to our athletics/admissions situation within the NESCAC, while tenths of a slot per team may appear trivial, in raw numbers the cutbacks amount to at least 3 to 13 fewer matriculants than the rest of the conference for an intercollegiate program that fields 1 to 6 more sports than any other school in the league. Among the Little Three, Williams also has the most to lose by not going along with the new NESCAC admissions policy. The hypothetical result of adopting a revamped league admissions formula here would be a gain of 15 slots to 81 (a number close to our yield most years prior to 2001), Amherst would net just 1 athlete to 67 with Wesleyan adding 5 to 71.
Moreover, Williams now has an admit to matriculation ratio approaching 1 for priority listed athletes whereas all other NESCAC institutions can overyield the number without penalty. Most NESCAC schools are permitted between 2 and 3 admits for each athletic slot in the regular decision pool. Until 2 years ago, Williams’ coaches were also allowed to overyield. For much of the 1980’s and 90’s our target number in admissions (72) was consistently exceeded, some years by a dozen or more recruits. So, despite the fact that athletic “tips” (priority listed athletes) have officially only been cut 8% from 72-66, if you consider matriculations, the athletic priority listed number has more accurately been reduced 20 to 25%.
Although neither the NESCAC or Ivy regulate low band (roughly 1150-1250 SAT here) athletic priority admits for every intercollegiate sport (the Ivy tiers football, hockey and basketball only), historically those colleges, including Williams prior to 2001, reserved between 1/4 and 1/3 of their slots for athletes with standardized test scores and grades below 2 standard deviations (low band) of the student body mean. Each year 29% of the recruited Ivy football class are low banders.
In ‘02 Williams matriculated 10 priority listed athletes, or 15% of the “tipped” athletic class, with admissions reader ratings at or near the bottom of the acceptable range - down significantly from previous yields. Last year, Amherst admitted 19 priority-listed athletes in the low band or 29% of their recruited class, a figure much more in line with the rest of the NESCAC and Ivy. This spring, because of institutional policy changes, Williams could accept as few as 5 players in the bottom academic tier. As a result of a preliminary read last winter, admissions said no to a low band baseball recruit that was subsequently admitted to Yale.
Prior to the new millennium, a Williams legacy with good grades and SAT scores around 1300 who had the potential to contribute to varsity athletics was usually admitted without counting against a team’s allotment of priority slots. Now, sons and daughters of alums generally need to score in the 1400 SAT range or better in order to gain acceptance without being on a coach’s list. Further, until recently the “protect” floor was approximately 50 SAT points lower than where it is today (1400 vs.1450).
Perhaps that it is too much insider knowledge for most of our readers, but, unless you understand the messy details, it is hard to have an informed opinion about athletic admissions at Williams.
The Times reports:
Several Division III coaches have said that coaches at slots-system colleges are more likely to guarantee admission to prospects to encourage a commitment, especially with a binding early-decision application.
“I’ve had plenty of kids I’m recruiting call me to say they’ve been assured a spot by a coach,” said Mike Murphy, the men’s lacrosse coach at Haverford College, which plays in the Centennial Conference. “This year I had a kid offer to play me the voice mail from the coach telling him that. Whether these coaches have that kind of power or not, the kids believe it.”
Parker, who has led a committee of administrators reforming the conference bylaws, said coaches were forbidden to assure athletes of admission.
Not sure if those rules apply to Coach Whalen.
Bottom line? Williams used to give substantially more preferences to athletes than it does today. In the 1990’s, the star senior lineman from St. John’s, the fellow who started all the games but had a 1250 SAT, would have been admitted to Williams. Today, he would be rejected. Instead, Williams accepts Vaczy, a smarter student but a less skilled football player. Sounds like a good trade off to me. Welcome to Williams!
Given that Williams is still winning NESCAC championships and Directors’ Cups, it is hard to argue that we give too little emphasis to athletics in admissions, the fears of Dave Barnard notwithstanding. Does anyone argue that Williams should let in worse students who were better athletes just so we could win 90% of our games instead of 80%? I hope not. Should Williams stay where it is or continue down the path that Morty started us on almost 10 years ago? I don’t know.
My own suggestion focuses, unsurprisingly, on transparency, on how we can demonstrate to members of the Williams community (especially faculty skeptics) and to our athletic opponents that Williams athletes are fairly representative of the Williams student body. Williams should make public the average SATs and college GPAs for each of its sports teams, both equal weighted including all team members and weighted by playing time to emphasize starters (and remove incentives for coaches to game their rosters). This would demonstrate conclusively that our student athletes are, for most teams and most practical purposes, indistinguishable from our non-athletes. We could make this information public and challenge other schools to do the same. Feedback on this?

The injury couldn’t have come at a worse time for St. John’s Prep football player
As soon as he made his official visit to Wesleyan, though, things started happening quickly for him. Williams head coach Mike Whalen offered him a chance to attend school there that very weekend.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
The scholar athlete in question has a 4.31 high school GPA. Did I miss something in the article that indicated he was a low band admit?
I hate, too, these “jump the gun” stories. I believe they discourage non-athletes and devalue applicants who happen to be, among other things, outstanding athletes by giving the impression that many (if not most of them) are admitted under special rules and get in only because of their athletics. That said, based on the rather sparse academic information in the article, you didn’t pick a very good candidate to illustrate the sins of the system, as far as I can tell.
Confession: I barely skimmed the rant.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Correction. 4.13 (immaterial difference). Sorry.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
There is a link that purports to put the GPA in perspective (but it does not work). In any event, you really can’t tell anything from GPA alone, lots of other factors (in particular test scores).
Also, it’s Tom Parker, not Tim, and he is currently athletic director at Amherst (which, not coincidentally, had nearly equalled Williams’ in athletic excellence since his arrival, despite a much smaller student body and fewer varsity teams).
February 11th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Sorry, meant to say admissions director, Freudian slip …
February 11th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Corrections made, thanks. And, for the record, I am not trying to illustrate the “sins of the system.” I am just describing how the systems work. Perhaps the Williams admission system is the best we can possibly have in this imperfect world.
But, if you are a football player applying to Williams, you need to make sure that Coach Whalen knows your name. If he doesn’t, then your athletic ability will not play a meaningful role in your admission decision.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
And the same is true for any athlete with respect to the coaches in his/her sport and any artist with respect to the evaluating/referring faculty in his or her field. If an applicant has done outstanding research in a scientific field, contacting a science faculty member and having him or her support one’s application probably helps. In other fields such as writing, it helps to have won competitions. Having received national recognition in something would also help, but, of course, that, too, needs to be brought to Admission’s attention.
For purposes of today’s discussion, it does help a little to have the link to the football player’s school’s honors lists functioning now, but not all that much as they are only for one semester and we don’t know anything about what they mean or how they are compiled (does someone who takes the lowest level in everything and also things like shop and gets all “A”s outrank someone who takes a full or over-full academic load comprised solely of the toughest AP and post-AP courses and gets one “A-”?). In fact, we know very little about this applicant and his academic achievements and abilities, whether in absolute or relative terms. (We also don’t know much about his athletic abilities other than that he was injured and didn’t play much during his senior year; I’ll leave that to Mike and his scouts).
Our young football-playing friend has not yet actually been admitted. It’s too bad he was naive, got caught up in the way the process works for D1 schools (but not for D3), or got misreported. He still has to deliver the goods academically. I think it’s really hard on the athletic applicants to live in a world that reveres semi-professional collegiate athletes and where few people understand how the D3 admissions process works. There is no “signing” and little glory even though the education will be far better than it will be for many students who get all the attention of signings and high visibility recruiting. Ironically, many of those who are attracted to Williams are people who value academics highly (and often bring considerable academic accomplishments to the table, notwithstanding the heavy time commitments of even high school sports).
I’ve known quite a few really fine athletes, artists, writers, leaders, and musicians who went to Williams. Some were top-notch academically; virtually all were strong academically. Many might not have been admitted but for their additional gifts, whether conveyed through a portfolio, athletic stats and tapes, or reporting news of winning a national writing or scientific competition. My point is that artists, scientists, and others are often given admission “preferences” because of their demonstrated gifts.
It doesn’t make sense to me to figure out and publish teams’ GPAs unless the College also figures out and publishes the GPAs of other groups where a talent or special characteristic is taken into account as a positive attribute in the admissions process (such as geographic diversity or being from Berkshire County; and then, the good Lord protect us from ourselves, there are race, ethnicity, gender, economic background stability of family structure, levels of parental education, non-English first language or education, and an entire panoply of other characteristics). Even where the sample/category wouldn’t be so small as to raise privacy concerns in a given year, I wouldn’t want the College to do that even if it could. It strikes me as wildly divisive.
Again and again, I see broad references to athletic tips. Few people seem to notice the extraordinary number of varsity athletes who leave Williams after four years with 3.5+ averages (and often much higher). They are scattered across all the sports. No one talks about how a really strong portfolio (or other evidence of outstanding artistic abilities, such as performance tapes) often opens doors to applicants whose statistics will put them in the bottom half of the admitted class, and how the artists are, like the athletes (and there is considerable overlap, of course, it being Williams), scattered across the GPA spectrum.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
This is fantasy talk.
No. That is not how the process works. Faculty (whether in the arts or any other area) have nothing like the interaction with admissions that the coaches have. Nothing. Don’t believe me? Ask Professor David Kechley.
There are plenty of musicians, artists, writers, scientists among elite academic applicants. If the College used solely SAT and grades, it would still get more than enough students like this. It does not need to give meaningful preferences to those sorts of applicants, so it does not.
Anyone who tells you different is lying.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
I can’t stop laughing at the “business or law” comment. Don’t know if that’ll still be the case when this kid is running Goldman Sachs someday.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
The real question about that “buisness or law” thing is whether the kid said it or the reporter. Because, you know, I’m sure that the average reporter goes to great lengths to research these kind of things.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
To Danny:
If and when you run across this blog, I just want to say, kudos to you!
You have obviously worked hard, you know about passion and commitment to excellence, and you have experienced and overcome setbacks. Sounds to me, like you are more than ready for Williams.
I wish you all the best. And don’t let any of the negative comments on this post get to you. The school will welcome you wholeheartedly.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Why does dkane hold up Danny as the poster boy who illustrates what is wrong with the admissions process at Williams? I think dkane’s decision to do this was taken in bad form. Featuring Danny’s admission as evidence that makes a case about the problems with the admissions process is disrespectful to Danny.
dkane also makes a some unsupported assumptions, that Danny would not have been accepted on the merits of his academics and that admissions was not involved in the admitting process.
“I’m just explaining how it works” No, you’re just explaining how you assume it works.
The finger quotes around “admissions process” and the inflammatory phrase “elite athletes” is classic dkane framing: Inflame, provoke, and then settle into a reasonable analysis. dkane seems to think nothing can be accomplished without a crisis, and he’s prepared to initiate one about every issue that concerns him, for love of alma matter, of course. By “elite athletes” dkane means tips but the phrase “elite athletes” is far more inflammatory, read on…
Since you have held up Danny Vaczy as poster child for this crisis in admissions, and probably without considering the effect on him or his family, don’t you think you ought to know more about his academic qualifications or do you assume he just another dumb football player that scored 1405 on his SATs?
It’s not right for you to put him in the middle of your concerns about the admissions process, even if what happened to him provides you with an example of the practice you object to – tips make the varsity coach the admissions office.
We’ve been talking about respect here for days now. Raise your concerns with respect, to a pre-freshman no less. This part struck me as particularly mean-spirited.
In fairness, Danny could take a concentration in Legal Studies, and we know Economics and Mathematics majors frequently go on to careers in business. You’re belittling someone who needs an introduction to liberal arts. The college preparatory school I attended didn’t teach their students the difference between the curriculum offered at liberal arts colleges and universities. I learned that when I cracked open the course catalog.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I hope Danny, his family, friends, and acquaintances don’t see this blog topic, but, if they do, I hope they’ll read all the way down to entries number 11 and 10 (Neil and FroshMom) and then go back and reread them and take them to heart.
David, I don’t doubt that you are correct that no faculty/staff group has as much interaction with Admission as the coaches. In part, that’s because it is such a large group, but that, of course, is not the major reason. The coaching staff isn’t a monolith, however. The three coaches I know best always place a very high priority on academics in their individual talks with recruits (something I know because I know students they have recruited over the years). I have never seen a “jump the gun” article about any of their successful recruits. By contrast, there seem to be several such articles each year about athletes from certain other sports (one of which, in fairness to the coaches, always has a huge roster and is very high profile, suggesting that you’d expect a higher incidence of instances). Instead of writing analyses filled with unfortunate and unsupported insinuations about an individual prospect, we should be calling for the Athletic Director, Director of Admission, and President to read the riot act to the coaches about the place of athletics in admissions at Williams with an aim towards, among other things, ending the annual spate of “jump the gun” articles. I’m not just talking about changing the appearance but not the substance: I’m talking about changing the appearance to mirror the substance (and here I echo Neil:“’I’m just explaining how it works’ No, you’re just explaining how you assume it works.”). I’ve discussed recruiting in detail with several Williams athletes over the course of their high school junior and senior years and found students who had near-perfect SATs, very high GPAs, deep leadership involvements, had won prestigious awards, and even were legacies (yes, all of that combined in single individuals) who had no assurances from coaches and were quite nervous about whether they would be admitted, even though they went on to have strong varsity careers at Williams (as their high school stats and presumably also the Williams coaches would have predicted). What we have here with the latest “jump the gun” article is a reigning-in-the-coaches problem, primarily a need to reeducate them about what and how they communicate to and with recruits. Some coaches do this far better than others.
As to whether Williams admits some students with, for example, wonderful portfolios but stats that put them in the bottom half or even quarter of their admitted class, they do. I don’t know all that many current or recently-admitted Williams students well enough to know their stats, but I know three for whom this is the case. Let me be absolutely clear: I applaud this as long as Admission is confident they can keep up with the work and will be good fits. Remember that the stats of even the bottom 25% of the admitted class are still pretty strong. (And David, I am not a liar.)
February 12th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Two other recent articles on-point:
http://www.eagletribune.com/pusports/local_story_043060629.html
http://www.advocateweekly.com/devilsadvocate/ci_8196143
February 12th, 2008 at 10:36 am
If the applicant should read this thread and if, as it appears, he is very serious about playing college football, then it would not be unreasonable for him to decide, as an 18 year old might, to matriculate somewhere other than Williams, which seems more hospitable to his interest.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Or won’t pillory him without knowing much about him….And making fun of him for something that he may well not even have said about the curriculum? Over the top!
I’m going to be hoping to see Danny’s name in the directory and on the roster in the years to come. If you are reading this thread, Danny, take it with a huge grain of salt. It was very little to do with you.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Larry, I think you are new to this board. And Danny, if reading, certainly is. DK has often used stories about prospective students to make larger points, has repeatedly been chastized regarding this tactic, and has repeatedly promised to stop, to no avail. If you want to discuss tips at Williams (which has already been discussed to death, certainly) fine, but why not just post this story, congratulate the kid, and save the rest of the discussion for another time when you don’t make some high schooler the unwitting poster boy for one of your crusades? (And as usual, the crusade is ill informed, the fact that he “only” made honor roll (as opposed to high honor roll) this past SINGLE quarter out of ONE year (a quarter, by the way, that he was slightly busy playing football and applying to colleges) is of no relevance whatsoever and proves nothing about his academic credentials.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
I think it’s worth noting that involvement in Varsity athletics takes a huge amount of time and effort from a high school student and yet doesn’t feed into a GPA in any way. Not only that, the student/athlete might possibly have a little less time to devote to SAT courses, extra-credit projects, tutoring, etc., things that most non-athletically involved students have plenty of time for and which greatly enhance a transcript.
Also, any student/athlete applying to Williams is doing it because of the reputation of the academic program, not because they think there is any chance of going on to a Sports career from a Div 3 level.
So, this indicates a student that is willing to tackle the workload that all Williams students take on, while (at the same time) devoting huge amounts of time and effort to an endeavor they have a passion for, and that adds greatly to campus life.
Pretty impressive, in my opinion. I think it says a lot about who they are as individuals. And if it takes the participation of the coaches to pinpoint who the best choices are from the pool of student/athlete applicants; and said coaches (and Admissions) occasionally make slight allowances in SAT scores and GPAs, recognizing the sacrifice of study time and other extra-curricular efforts, the student/athlete must make…then so be it.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
A couple thoughts:
1. David, it’s obvious the problem with that honor list. For one, it’s only the first quarter grades (isn’t that during the season…might that be when a player, even an injured one, might have the lowest grades?). For another, it only lists people who get ALL grades above a B+ or A-. For all you know, Vaczy got As and one B in an absurdly hard class. You don’t know…but you certainly assume. as someone interested in stats, you should have realized that flaw immediately. Oh, and how many people are in St John’s prep? How many students per year go to top schools? Maybe that’s just a damn good school, or has damn high grade inflation OR doesn’t adjust for AP vs. non-AP classes for its honor roll. tsk tsk.
2. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, hadn’t the fiasco with the golfer who was accepted taught you not to use incoming freshman to make a point? Didn’t you agree not to do that, or am I forgetting something?
February 16th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Rory asks:
That post was here. I thought that we had all agreed not to use posts about incoming first years to discuss larger policy issues. But then I posted about the incoming first years from Questbridge. No discussion of policy by me. Then you commented:
So, you can use the high schools of Questbridge students as a jumping off point for a discussion of Williams admission policies, but I can’t do a similar thing here? I am confused.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Dear Confused,
As they still say in the old Cleveland neighborhood, Life ain’t fair.
February 16th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
They would say it that unflamboyant way only if someone’s mother or sister was present!