Wed 2 Apr 2008
It’s that time of year.
OH my gosh.
everytime i check an online decision i feel like my insides are being devoured very slowly and painfully by who knows what. its the worst feeling in the world. i usually cant get myself to click the button to check for a good 1~2 hours. nauseous? heck yes!
Admissions letters went out yesterday. Do we have any applicants among our readers? If so, let us know how the process seemed to you.
Good luck to all.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
We apologise for the temporary outage in the comments. Those responsible have been sacked.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Ronit:
Just want to commend you on the funniest line I have ever seen on EphBlog. [: )]
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Not to rain on Ronit’s parade, but it’s a Monty Python line, FROSH mom …
Williams had a record number of applicants (over 7500) and admitted a record low percentage (16) this year. Of course, so did every other competitive college, due to four factors, only one of which is temporary (1) the ease of electronic applications, which has led more and more high school seniors to apply to huge numbers of school, (2) the end of early admission at certain schools, (3) reaching the peak of a demographic wave of 18 years olds, and (4) the rise in international applications to elite schools. Even with the demographics becoming slightly more favorable, the days of Williams and its main competitors ever having an admit rate north of 20 percent are over … for more figures, see
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/education/01admission.html?em&ex=1207281600&en=9af8f7e89f3090a0&ei=5087%0A
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
In light of the growing population of inordinately qualified applicants, particularly from the international arena, and the well-publicized enormous endowments of Williams and its peers, I will once again assert that Williams should follow many of its peers (Amherst, Middlebury, Princeton, Yale, and Harvard among them) by modestly raising incoming class size. Not so much as to dramatically affect campus life, but Williams could easily accomodate another 30-40 kids a year without any impact whatsoever on the average academic credentials of the student body (or if any impact, it would likely increase that average) and any demonstrable difference in the culture of the school. Williams already has almost all the facilities it needs with two gleaming student centers, two enormous new libraries (as of 2011), a huge new theater and art building, new labs, new classrooms, new faculty offices, etc. Build one or two additional dorms, hire 20 new professors (again, there is an overabundance of qualified applications), and produce another 30 or so Williams grads per year. I don’t see any downside.
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
We apologize again for the faults in the comments. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Okay…best ‘application’ of a funny line on Ephblog.
Ken now gets the award for funniest ‘original’ line on EphBlog.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
We apologize for Jeff Z’s pointing out an obvious Monty Python reference. Jeff Z. has been sacked.
Also: Frosh Mom, you need to rent The Holy Grail, NOW
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Although I will undoubtedly be corrected as I do believe there is a literary term for taking a line and adding a twist, right?
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
The downside of growing the size of the student body is that the college dilutes its per student endowment and, ultimately, its ability to provide the massive merit discount (expeditures higher than revenues, funded by per student endowment) that attracts large numbers of customers.
That is why Williams has not grown at all since it grew significantly and diluted its endowment with the addition of women in the 70s and 80s.
Having now “caught up” in per student endowment with a sustained decade or more of zero growth, Williams might consider the kind of small incremental growth at the margins that you propose. I do NOT see Williams planning any signifant growth as long as Morty is in charge. He fully understands the power of per student endowment.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
One interesting factor to be watched will be the percentage of high school graduates/18ish students (like Williams, not all colleges require a high school diploma) who seek to enroll in college. As I understand it, the actual number of 18-year olds in the U.S. population may have already peaked (it least the forecast several years ago was that 2007 would be the peak) but the percentage of that group seeking to enter college apparently continues to rise.
Another interesting factor to watch will be whether the percentage of the general U.S. applicant pool that is male will continue to fall. I believe that only the most elite colleges are succeeding in maintaining some kind of parity between males and females in terms of numbers enrolled (and perhaps broadly defined qualifications, but I’m not sure about that). As I understand it, there are a lot of males leaving the education system at or before high school graduation level, manifesting a continuing crisis for boys in our society.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Ronit:
I saw Monty Python on Broadway in NY …in the late 70’s…and well…
maybe it was the company I was in, maybe it was my yet, very undeveloped sense of humor, maybe…
Anyway, I will reconsider… rent “The Holy Grail”… and report back.
April 2nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I actually got online to wish the applicants well, but then got distracted.
To those who have applied regular decision: good luck. Williams is an extraordinary place and I hope you’ll be among the fortunate ones who are able to experience all of its wonders. If you are not offered a place, please remember this: there are lots of really special colleges out there. Ask most people who were turned down by their first choice a year or two ago and you’ll find them thriving where they landed.
FM - The Holy Grail is a must.
Williams has already unofficially increased its overall enrollment a bit over the last few years (but without much increase in the number of students who are resident at any given time). There was room for it because of the increasing numbers of students who are away for a semester or a year (mainly during the junior year). There’s room for more of that, I think. It helps fill the emptied beds and seats and may be slowly increasing the number of people in each graduating class.
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
HWC, I certainly agree that per-person endowment must be kept at a healthy level. But the level it is currently at at Williams and its peers is well beyond healthy and approaching the point of the insane. If each of the elite schools (privates with billion plus endowments, say) spreads the wealth just a little by adding around 10 percent to the student body, that would provide more people access to those tremendous resources without a substantial dilution. And that does seem to be the trend as the wealthiest of the wealthy are either in the midst of, or contemplating, undergraduate expansion. In all events, we see to be in agreement that the near future may be the time for a very modest expansion of the student body after over 20 years of nearly zero growth. I’d say admitting two more entries worth of frosh starting around 2013/14 when the library and probably the athletic facility construction / renovations are complete, for an extra 150-200 kids total on campus, (Lehman could be reconverted to a frosh dorm, and one additional upperclass dorm could be build) would work out pretty well.
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
A moose once bit my sister…
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Williams hasn’t increased enrollment:
Fall 1999: 2034 full-time undergrads
Fall 2007: 1964 full-time undergrads.
Going back a little further, enrollment was 1964 students in 1994 and had grown to 2022 students in 1988.
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:17 pm
‘10: That must have been pretty nasti.
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:20 pm
argggh. Typo.
That’s 1964 students in 1984.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Damn right, David - this whole college admissions subject has been overemphasized to the point of nausea.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:41 pm
‘10
No, she bit him, you naughty moose.
(Sigh) How ever did they win?
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
“10: … in the Astor Bar (as such phrase appears in the Cole Porter song, “Well Did you Evah”, from the 1956 MGM Oscar nominated film, High Society, starring Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Grace Kelly and Louis Armstrong. Actually the phrase in the film went “got pinched in the Astor Bar”. But first you need to know about the long defunct Astor Bar, a place where your correspondent had a drink or two or three once upon a time. Oh, forget it - there is only one person on this blog, who cares about the history of such ancient popular culture.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Indeed, you are correct, Frank! I AM thinking you mean me.
Ahhh, those old watering holes at the Roosevelt, the Biltmore, and other hotels that no longer exist.
Not to mention the 1001 other places to which media reps used to drag (kicking and screaming) young assistant BBDO account execs for 3-hour lunches.
I was glad I’d learned to drink at Williams and considered the ability as one of the side benefits of a liberal arts education at a gentlemen’s school.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Froshmon- Strange women lying in ponds handing out swords is no basis for a system of government.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Well at least two and more, I suspect. Where else would I have learned about milk punch?
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
So, which of you had drinks at the following places?
The Stork Club
21
Toots Shor’s
Extra points if you actually set foot in Jilly’s (What is “Know your Rat Pack Trivia?”)
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Gondo - Collector of the odd and epicene:
I get points for the following
The Stork Club. In addition to it’s night time duties, it offered it’s room for media lunches at noon time with a full array of souvenirs presented to each attendee. I am sure Sherman Billingsley was not amused.
I remember Toots Shor’s as a character hang-out like Al Schacht’s (The Clown Prince of Baseball) and Jack Dempsey’s. Not quite really the place for the aspiring young man in grey flannel.
2! was, is, and continues to be a truly nice place, particularly if you like chicken hash. I once, honest to God, received a phone call with the phone delivered to my table. I worked for ABC-TV at the time. The real players had phones already at their tables.
Jilly’s. Late at night after a play and a late supper at Sardi’s (Welsh Rabbit), I stumbled into the bar. What ever the style imparted to the place by Frank and the Pack had long since taken the last train to Vegas. The night the music died.
I don’t know how many points this gives me and I certainly don’t want to get into a bar brawl with Frank. But for me the places listed, with the exception of 21, were by the late ’50’s-60’s hanging on for dear life to whatever faded sheen they had been given by the likes of Jimmy Fiddler, Walter Winchell, Cholly Knicherbocker, and Damon Runyon.
For a good insight into the use of publicity for rooms like these in that long-ago period, watch ‘Sweet Small of Success’ with Bert Lancaster and, in by far his best role, Tony Curtis
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
This thread, without a doubt, wins the award for ‘weird and haphazard’ direction.
And Dick…given a couple of clues in your comment above, I would venture to say, there are probably fewer degrees of separation between you and I than we would have otherwise imagined.
LOL! I will leave it to your imagination, Dude.
Just to torture you…tee-hee…
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:07 am
“As I understand it, there are a lot of males leaving the education system at or before high school graduation level, manifesting a continuing crisis for boys in our society.”
& You are correct.
PCness has killed the general male desire to compete against the tyranny of anti-western vomit.
That is why we have so many incidents, so to speak.
You all suck the big WAZOO.
Screw you and the the bull that brought you to this doorstop.
You can strip all the commentary you want, but I will wait patiently for you one day,
You are all a bunch of C’s, and you know what I mean.
I now will take a break to refresh my cup as to celebrate your aging decrepit demise.
With a trust fund to equip my foray into victory over the mendacity of our benevolent generational vixens.
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 am
“… any hip guy knows that this one is toting that one around for you” or something to that effect - 1957 “Sweet Smell of Success” J.J. Hunsecker words for this political season of the 21st century. Excuse me - I just had a cultural flashback. In the unlikely event that you are sufficiently interested, go rent and view the movie. You won’t be sorry.
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:19 am
DS and FU,
I agree with both of you. “The Sweet Smell of Success” is a great, if ultimately de-moralizing movie, and Tony Curtis, an actor whom I normally don’t have much time for (Some Like It Hot excluded) is fantastic, as is the ever wonderful Burt Lancaster. To indulge in one of my own New York 50’s fantasies, what I wouldn’t give to see Willie Mays play in the Polo Grounds for the New York Giants.
DS,
I guess you had to deal with the real life Mad Men, not the cable version.
FM,
Never tell. Keep that mystique!
To get back to the original post. Hey, HS Seniors, don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get in to Williams, but if you do, attend and then you’ll be able to have conversations that veer into classic 1950’s watering holes.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:38 am
The comment function on CC 2008-03-11 seems to be broken, so I’ll post here in hopes that someone will see this post ad fix that that problem. This is such a composite thread that one more subtopic will only be the merrier.
First, I wanted to make a comment on the College Counsel minutes post but no comment window appeared (there are two comments visible so it must have worked at some time). Could someone please fix it?
Second, is there a chance that we could get a permanent box at the top for reporting technical problems like this? I would think that would simplify things for whomever is doing repairs (and many thanks to you!) and would speed repairs.
Third, I want to join in with David’s sentiment that I hope the Campus Life and other non-students stay out of the JA selection process. Those people seem to ruin everything they touch. The students seem to value diversity. They may or may not have been aware of the problems and issues before some of this year’s discussions, but I think they are now. Trust them to handle the situation. Changes that come from within are much more likely to fit, be effective, and survive without damaging a system that is a tremendous asset to Williams. The professionals are unlikely to solve anything and they might well ruin the JA system in the process.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am
Larry,
I asked for a “tech” comment box a long time ago. So thanks for seconding that. I have had some strange tech problems with EB off and on for a while, and voiced that as well…
David will undoubtedly respond now that he’s heard it from you.
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:31 am
SCOOP
Directors Cup winter results are in.
1 Washington (Mo.) 693.50
2 Amherst (Mass.) 647.00
3 Williams (Mass.) 617.25
4 New Jersey 516.00
5 Middlebury (Vt.) 508.50
6 Wisconsin La Crosse 468.50
7 Messiah (Penn.) 448.75
8 Wisconsin Whitewater 442.00
9 Emory (Ga.) 434.00
10 Wartburg (Iowa) 402.75
11 Wisconsin Stevens Point 399.50
12 Tufts (Mass.) 396.50
Wash U. jumps to the front, after winning men’s basketball. Amherst had good runs in men’s and women’s basketball.
Middlebury is coming on strong.
At the same time, Williams looks very good in men’s tennis, crew (but only the women’s side counts for this; men’s crew is not an NCAA sport), and several other sports. We shall see.
As to a technical problem box, FM, please accept my apologies. I should have given you credit for the idea.
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:34 am
By the way, if any successful applicants have made it this far in the thread, congratulations.
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Larry,
Forget the credit…just give me the box. I know David is busy, but maybe someday.
Meanwhile, don’t forget Baseball! I don’t have the details in front of me, but they have started the season and are doing well.
And, along with & and Larry, I would like to give my best good wishes to all the applicants, whether accepted at Williams or elsewhere.
Enjoy your great adventure!
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 am
Larry,
Thanks for the update. I have no idea why, but your post reminded me of one of my favorite Wodehouse short stories, “The Great Sermon Handicap”, in which the residents of a country house start to make a book on which of the local vicars will give the longest sermon on a particular Sunday, and the machinations used to win the pot.
I don’t know if I’d be surprised to find out that somewhere out there, people place bets on which school will win the Directors Cup.
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Gondo,
A great story. Too bad we are unlikely to have the details on the machinations used to win this pot.
FM,
Yes baseball is coming along very well (it is one of the teams I had in mind).
April 3rd, 2008 at 11:32 am
That comment box is fixed now. Thanks go to the repair crew.
Gondo,
A wonderful story. Too bad we are unlikely ever to know the machinations that will go into winning this pot.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Gondo: That is one of my favorite Wodehouse stories (surpassed only by the one where Gussie gets sozzled before the prize-giving at Aunt Dahlia’s school).
All: If you have any further problems commenting, please try clearing your cache and cookies, that seems to fix it for me.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
ronit -
Thanks for the tip.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Ronit,
I almost passed out from laughter at Gussie Fink-Nottle’s speech to the boy’s school, it is one of the funniest things ever written in English.
“For someone whose never spoken rubbish in his life, you certainly do a good job with it.”
As much as I enjoyed the Fry and Laurie version, you have to read Wodehouse, just because Bertie’s narration is just so damn funny and it can’t be put on screen. I use Bertie’s description of having a lunch with Aunt Agatha, “I’d rather swim the River Styx” quite often in regular conversation. I can sort out who’s who by the reaction.
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Yeah, although he was a talented writer for the stage (I think the Williamstown Theatre Festival did his “Anything Goes” a couple of years ago), there are a lot of jokes in Wodehouse that only work on the page, like this one from Indiscretions of Archie:
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
When not playing knee football at The Drone’s, you may find yourselves further amused by Wodehouse’ the Blandings Saga with Lord Emsworth and that most wonderful porcine, The Princess of Blandings.
Peter O’Toole brought Lord Emsworth to life in at least one film-for-tv.
An earlier quite good tv series of Jeeves and Wooster featured Dennis Price as Jeeves and a wonderfully feckless Ian Carmichael as Bertie.
Frank Uible and Henry Bass may recall knee football as an after-dinner sport. At least it was at our semi-drones establishment on Park Street. Several injuries to taller brothers were sustained on the rug that later influenced results on the court.
April 4th, 2008 at 4:44 am
more on sports (to give the teams credit)
WILLIAMS.EDU | ATHLETICS HOME
April 3, 2008
Ephs remain in 3rd after winter season in Directors’ Cup standings
At the end of the fall season Washington University (MO) topped the NCAA Division III Directors’ Cup standings with a total of 322 points. That total gave the Bears of Washington University a 31 point lead over second place Amherst and a 36 point lead over third place Williams.
With the Bears tallying 371.50 points in the winter season they have now extended their lead over Amherst to 46.5 points and over Williams to 76.25 points.
Three of the top five teams are NESCAC schools with Amherst (2), Williams (3) and Middlebury (5).
The Ephs 331.25 points in the winter came from six sports. The men’s and women’s swimming & diving teams both finished fifth at the NCAA Championships and added 150 points (75 per team). Men’s indoor track & field was 9th, scoring 68.25 points, while women’s track & field added 40 points with a 33rd place finish. The Alpine and Nordic skiers finished 14th and scored 48 points. Wrestling contributed 25 points with a 47th place finish.
Williams will have to post a banner spring campaign if the Ephs are to extend their current streak of 9 straight Directors’ Cups to 10…