Sat 17 May 2008
In the competition between Williams and Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford, 90% of students cross-admitted, choose one of HYPS over Williams. But what percentage of applicants are cross-admitted? I always assumed that the vast majority of students who are admitted to HYPS are also admitted by Williams since all these schools have very similar admissions priorities. Are many students rejected by Williams but admitted by HYPS? Here is one.
On a Monday in March, Holly Rippon-Butler was feeling sick, so she had her father pick her up from school.
Along with being ill, Holly, a Schuylerville High School senior, had to deal with recently being put on the waiting list at her three top college choices — Middlebury, Amherst and Vassar.
But life was about to get worse. That afternoon, she received a letter from Williams College. Her application had been rejected.
So, that same day, when Yale University replied, Holly had to brace herself for another rejection.
“I was feeling like, well, if I got wait-listed at all these schools, and rejected here, well, with Yale — no chance,” she said on a recent day.
Holly logged on to the school’s Web site, and found something strange. Music began playing, although it was choppy because of her dial-up modem. A photo of a bulldog appeared on her monitor.
While the words “Welcome” and “Class of 2012″ appeared on the screen, it wasn’t until Holly read an online letter that she realized she had been accepted into Yale.
Her eyes filled with tears. She went to the garage to tell her father the news.
The family, who lives on a farm, was in shock for the next week. Holly, an only child, was going to Yale. And while it costs $50,000 a year to attend, the university was paying for nearly all of it.
A nice story. But why would Yale admit Holly while Williams rejected her? My guess would be that someone on the Yale admissions committee has a soft spot for either farm girls or students from Schuylerville. Other explanations?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:33 am
How about farm boys, you sexist SOB?
May 17th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Yale does not reserve 30% of every freshman class for recruited athletes.
This leaves a much higher percentage of Yale’s class available for other types of students, including (for example) low-income farm girls.
Admissions is a zero-sum game for colleges. Every choice to prioritize one group of students carries a lost opportunity cost.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I have seen this happen before, but I can only give anecdotal information. I know of a current Harvard student whom Williams rejected: very high stats, very awkward personality and no extracurricular involvement beyond science fair/team (at which he excelled); this was a stereotypical situation where Williams probably had real concerns that the applicant would fit into and contribute to residential life at the school. I also know of quite a few students who applied to several Ivies and a few very top liberal arts colleges, were admitted by one Ivy and wait listed or rejected by the liberal arts colleges (Williams, Amherst, Wellesley, and/or Swarthmore). There isn’t any pattern, but in individual cases I would attribute it to the following factors: lack of interest in the LACs (lack of familiarity probably showed on the application); celebratory status (usually of the parents, not the kid; Harvard, Stanford and Penn particularly seem to love this); legacy with very deep, often monied, status at the admitting school; outstanding but only in one dimension; athlete in unusual sport not widely offered (sailing, fencing); luck; and the way the cookie crumbled.
It is my understanding that “socio-ec” applicants from “traditional American” rural farm, fishing, or ranch backgrounds are particularly appealing, for diversity purposes, to the urban Ivies. It may also help that, almost by definition, this is a rather rare category of applicant (decline of “traditional” ways of living off the land/water, urbanization, probability that going to an Ivy is not in the culture, lack of awareness of the generous financial aid offered by many Ivies, going far away to college is not in the culture, perceived large cultural/educational differences from typical Ivy students, etc.). I suspect that a rural background probably doesn’t help candidates from overseas in the same way, perhaps because the cultural gulf is thought to be so massive (calling into question whether such candidates would be likely to thrive), but I am just speculating there.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Without getting into details, I was rejected from a boatload of colleges including Bates, a couple of other liberal arts colleges, and some larger universities. My test scores were high and there were some extenuating circumstances that affected my GPA only Williams seemed to take the time to look at/listen to what the hell was going on. Getting into Yale and not into Williams is far less bizarre than the list of schools I was rejected from while getting into Williams.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:26 am
“celebrity”
I am very typo-prone.
sorry
May 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I’m not surprised at all. First of all, both Yale and Williams are very similarly selective; I doubt that the list of students who are rejected at Yale and admitted to Williams is much greater than the group who are rejected at Williams and admitted at Yale. When you’re as selective as Yale and Williams are, a significant component of the application process is how your application comes across to the admissions officers. Different schools have different Admission Office cultures, and consequently, different hooks will resonate. From my experience working with Admissions at Williams, it seems like Yale/Harvard are a little more willing to forgive weak stats for a celebrity parent or for one particular great talent (such as being a concert violinist). Williams is a little more willing to forgive weak stats for very well rounded students (all-state orchestra, star of the school musical, two varsity sports) or a compelling personal story.
Additionally, as admission offices repeatedly remind applicants, they do not merely accept the best applicants; they do their best to build a class. In other words, if Williams gets 30 great violinist and one really good bassoonist with otherwise equivalent stats, the bassoonist will most likely be admitted over the 30th best violinist, even if that violinist is a better musician.
However, in the case at hand, my guess is that the application just didn’t resonate with the Williams Admissions Office in one way or another.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
She is so psyched she is going to Yale. Man. Williams is a great school, but Yale.. man… YALE!
May 17th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Good for her. Not knowing anything about her, one would merely have to assume that she has some trait that was in high demand at Yale and not so much at Williams, but she is clearly a smart and qualified student. These things are often a matter of luck, or the mood of the admissions officer on a given day, or minor errors that could derail your application. Remember that Williams turns down thousands of students every year, many of whom are fully qualified to attend Williams or any Ivy League.
It’s stupid to speculate that she got into Yale because Yale has less of a focus on athletes. That is just one possible explanation out of many.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
“It’s stupid to speculate that she got into Yale because Yale has less of a focus on athletes. That is just one possible explanation out of many.”
Ronit: Agreed. Yale, in fact, may have more teams (Div. I) to fill than Williams.
And the Williams 2012 acceptance rate for “athletes” was less than 15% (about 184 of 1229, if I remember correctly).
May 18th, 2008 at 1:42 am
How is “athlete” defined for the purpose of that 1229 denominator?
May 18th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Let’s go with a simple, boring, and reasonable answer: Yale has nearly 3 times as many undergrads as Williams does, so it follows that Yale must accept more students. If Yale accepts more students than Williams and many people apply to both schools it seems entirely reasonable to expect that there will be some accepted by Yale and rejected by Williams.
I know, it’s not sexist, or ruralist or anything fun, but the math makes sense to me.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:05 am
I’m still wondering how David knows
Source please? Or is this like how you know that 90% of cross-burners were not motivated busing?
May 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Also then it might be not unreasonable to frivolously hypothesize that consequently there should be three times as many Yalies who rejected Williams’ acceptances as Ephs who rejected Yale’s acceptances - ceteris paribus of course.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
I know a student rejected by Williams and accepted at Yale. It was surprising when it happened, because the famiily is…high-profile, and Williams did not seem to be swayed by that. Ultimately, I think it was the right outcome for the student, who is currently very happy at Yale.
I’ve had two ‘07 Yale grads with me for the weekend. Any specific questions anyone would like me to ask them?