Wed 28 May 2008
Morty and former Williams Economics Professor Mike McPherson on defining college success.
“What college success means depends so much on what [kind of] college you’re talking about and what students you’re talking about,” said McPherson, who is president of the Spencer Foundation and former president of Macalester College. He suggested that the best measures for college success would be specific but tailored to individual institutions. What that means, precisely, “each one can answer that question for themselves,” he said.
The panel was conspicuously divided into two halves: on one side sat McPherson and Schapiro, the president of Williams College; on the other were two representatives of public institutions whose students are much more likely to come from disadvantaged backgrounds and rely on financial aid. Williams, the moderator, didn’t hesitate to point out that the administrators from Miami-Dade and the University of Maryland seemed more willing to embrace strict accountability measures and the data collection that approach requires.
Schapiro, also an economist, suggested that there might be “some appetite” among faculty for more in-house accountability measures, but explained that much of the resistance stems from a fear that increased empiricism could lead to a one-size-fits-all testing regime — like a No Child Left Behind for higher education.
He stressed the need to more rigorously link what colleges do to their students’ professional and other outcomes after they graduate. Otherwise, it’s impossible to tell which teaching methods work and which don’t. Schapiro brought up a hypothetical proposal to compare students’ incoming SAT scores with outgoing GRE scores to determine whether they improved (and presumably correlate those scores to majors and other factors during the college experience).
“I would do that, but then again, I’m an empirical economist,” he said. Professors in the English department, he imagined, would view it as “heresy.”
When colleges experiment with different ways to teach critical thinking skills, as Williams does, Schapiro said, it should be seen as necessary to then empirically test what worked the best. Higher education is “horribly bad at this,” McPherson said — to take one example, colleges tinker with class sizes all the time — but they “never, ever look at the results.”
“Even at Williams, there’s not as much of an appetite as there should be,” Schapiro said.
Well, isn’t it (part of) the president’s job to generate that appetite?
Now, to be fair, Morty is already at the 99th percentile of all college presidents in terms of his willingness to measure Williams performance, so I shouldn’t be too critical. And, to be fair to my English professor friends (Hello Katie Kent ‘88!), any measurement plan that uses a tool like the GRE is likely to fail, both because improving standardized test scores is not the purpose of a Williams education and because any such improvement is likely too small to notice.
Instead, my point is that there is an obvious policy change that would a) Allow fair-minded observers to see the causal effect of a Williams education on student achievement and b) Not force Williams professors to do much if anything differently. That change is the public display of student work. Put on the web all the papers that a student writes as a freshman for ENGL 101 and all those she writes as a senior for ENGL 401. If the Williams English Department is doing its job, the latter papers will be much better than the former.
There are, of course, all sorts of difficult issues to consider in any plan which makes student work public (as well as her professor’s comments but not grades). Perhaps freshmen should be exempt. Perhaps students should be allowed to opt-out from the requirement for one class per semester. Applying the requirement to non-paper-writing classes is difficult. And so on.
But the central principal is obvious: Being a part of an academic community requires public participation in the scholarly conversation. Making papers public will increase the quality of work done at Williams. Making the comments (but not the grades) public will have a similar effect. All the good reasons for making senior theses public apply in the context of other classes as well. (See Tim Burke for a related re-imagining of a liberal arts education.)
Assume for a moment that Morty agreed. What should he do? Best next step is to recruit some faculty to try out the experiment. (All the projects done by students in my Winter Study will be posted to the web, along with my comments.) See how it goes. I bet that someone like Joe Cruz would be willing to try it out in philosophy. Perhaps the whole thing will be a disaster. More likely, I think, is that other professors would be impressed with how making academic work public both improved the quality of that work and made it easier for everyone to see the progress that students make.
[Side note: Just noticed that the ENGL department no longer has a 101 (common introductory course for all students) or 401 (common senior capstone course). This is another sign of the Decline of the West, but save that for a separate rant. Just substitute 100-level and 400-level in the above.]
14 Responses to “Heresy”
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May 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am | Reply
My privacy side just screamed “NOOOO!!!” to your proposal–god knows, the intellectual masturba…growth…I was experiencing as a college freshman and sophomore should never see the light of day. Such papers were not written for a public audience, as such, they were better for my personal growth than were I to be tailoring my argument and beliefs knowing that ten years from now, someone might find my rants about urban policy as a college student when I try to get a job in a policy think tank (or something like that).
Capstone papers for juniors and seniors I can understand being made public (and support). Perhaps if the papers were public but anonymous–but where’s the point in that?
May 28th, 2008 at 11:02 am | Reply
I am with Rory on this one.
Bad, bad thing to do to freshmen who are adjusting to enough as it is.
Publishing their work puts emphasis on the wrong objectives, for students and for professors. You might get ‘better’ papers in the cookie-cutter sense, but you jeopardize the opportunity to discover, and develop, the more ‘unique’ aspects of their voices.
On the other hand, speaking of SATs, Smith and Wake Forest have decided to do away with SAT requirements starting in 09. Now, that, to me, is an interesting turn of events!
You can read about it here.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:07 am | Reply
Morty can’t seriously believe that a college student’s race/ethnicity or family income is likely to change enough during four years of college to significantly impact standardized test scores.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:16 am | Reply
Yeah, I will third Rory here. This is WINTER STUDY. The whole point is that this is not graded, a time to experiment in an area that is perhaps not your specialty, take intellectual risks, or even, god forbid, have a little fun. You are COMPLETELY missing the point of Winter Study with the mandatory publishing of papers. If students want to do so, by all means provide them a forum, but do not do so if, upon completion, they don’t want their work in the public domain. Bad, bad idea. Again, might be different if this was a senior poly ec project or something, but not appropriate for Winter Study.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm | Reply
Public participation in the scholarly conversation is not the same as posting papers publicly so that you (or someone else) can selectively pull quotes and make fun of them on Ephblog (or someone can do that in the Record or elsewhere). Bad idea.
Students participate in the intellectual conversation via class discussions. But those same students have wildly varying writing skills and having the work published would be an enormous disincentive for those students who took writing classes to improve their writing. Don’t even get me started on making the comments public. If your goal was 100% transparency (as you seem to think it is) then every Blackboard-based discussion should be public and every class discussion should be webcast. I guess we should also add science labs and math exams…stats and econ problem sets? If not, we are privileging certain subjects and certain skill sets.
A senior thesis (which you know will be publicly discussed and critiqued) being published simply expands an already known public audience. Publishing an English 101 (or Religion 101 or Philosophy 101) paper designed for the consumption of your professor who will then give you constructive feedback to improve your writing and anaylsis is entirely different. I flat out would not have chosen my major if this had been the case. I also probably would have dropped Philo 101 after the abysmal grade on my first paper in total humiliation. I was drawn to those classes because they were hard, and I struggled to figure things out. My writing was – I am certain – TERRIBLE. Hell, even my senior seminar paper was probably pretty self-indulgent. But public criticism was part of why I didn’t write a thesis. My intellectual journey wasn’t about public humiliation or public praise.
So I respectfully (or at least I tried to be) disagree that the quality of education would improve if papers were published. I think it would discourage students from taking classes in unfamiliar areas. Frankly, even at the level of improving the particularly pieces that students actually were stilling to write, I don’t know that they would get any better. As an undergrad, I thought I was putting my best work forward already (and I think a lot of Williams students would feel the same way). I was often quite surprised by the comments and suggestions on my writing, even when the grades were very good. So how would knowing it was going to be published change that? Publishing only improves the quality of work if students weren’t doing their best already, a proposition I find unlikely.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:00 pm | Reply
1)There is a spectrum between everything public and nothing. Five years ago, nothing was public. Now, senior theses are. All (?) now seem to agree that this is a good thing. I am in favor of moving another step in this direction. For example, the POLI-EC majors all gave presentations about their big senior projects. (Can’t find a link to the announcements for these.) Why not make these presentations public (the slides, the reports, perhaps video)? See Tim Burke for more detail.
2) Another example will be the papers for my course. (Perhaps this will be the first Winter Study course (any course?) to require papers to be made public. Don’t like it? No worries! Don’t take the course. It is a free country.
3) How far to go in the direction of publicness is a difficult question. Many of the objections above are plausible.
4) JG claims:
Ha! Now there is some chance that I interact with a much less academically serious cross-section of the student population than JG, but my understanding is that there is a great deal of “slacking” on student papers at Williams. I find it absurd to think that every student on every paper is already “doing their best.”
Would anyone disagree with the claim that at least 10% (if not 25%) of the papers turned in at Williams do not represent the “best” work that students are capable of? Simple test: If you don’t start the paper at least 24 hours before it is due, it is unlikely to represent your “best” work.
My purpose is not to attack the choices that Williams students make. Many students claim (correctly!) that there is no point in doing their “best” on papers since the grade distribution at Williams is so truncated that even not-so-great work gets an A. True or false? Oren Cass ‘05 had a comment, which I can’t find, along the lines of “Students pretend to work hard on their papers at Williams and professors pretend to grade them.”
I am merely making the empirical claim that, if Joe Cruz were teaching two sections of PHIL 101, the average paper quality would be much better in the section with public postings, even if “public” were defined here to mean just the other members of the class.
You might argue that the costs of such a policy are not worth the benefits, but would anyone disagree on the claim that essay quality would improve?
Are your tutorial papers better or worse than your papers for other classes, classes in which only your professor reads your work?
May 28th, 2008 at 5:15 pm | Reply
Is our goal now to shame students into improving their work? Is that what college should be?
Sounds like a better option is to combat grade inflation–allowing, then, for students to have an incentive they find important (grades) be linked to effort. Positive incentives are generally more palatable than negative incentices. publicizing papers not only is a negative incentive (I don’t want to look bad!) but has another other flaw: it subtly pushes students to take less risks intellectually. That bizarre idea that popped into your head you want to explore? Don’t do it, you might look stupid online!
God knows, as a graduate student I put a lot more effort into my papers now than I did as an undergraduate. I still wouldn’t want 90% of them to ever go public!
Should every student be required to have one major project that is presented publicly? Perhaps–that’s certainly a much more reasonable method than others.
As JG pointed out, students already ARE publicly a part of the intellectual community via blackboard posts, listserves, class discussions, peer editing, etc. Should that be bolstered? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know because those of us not currently at Williams, aren’t part of that specific intellectual community. That’s fine.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:24 pm | Reply
To clarify then, for the students who give a crap, this process is unlikely to improve the quality of work. The 10% (or 25%) of students who are not motivated enough by their grades or the Williams community or whatever else to turn in their best work are unlikely to be more motivated by the fact that the class or anyone else can read that paper…and the small number that might be so motivated, in my opinion, would far outnumber those who would be less likely to participate, thereby overall decreasing the quality of work because talented students who produce good work might not participate.
And I hate to tell you, but there is almost nothing in the world that would motivate most students to start their work earlier. And starting work earlier doesn’t improve things for everyone. The earlier I started a paper, the more likely I was to scrap the entire thing and start fresh. The final version was still written in some kind of rush, and no, not always (or even usually) improved by those prior aborted attempts. I think everyone should try to turn in a third draft of a paper…or I suppose more. But if it’s more than a first, I would consider it a victory. Some of us are procrastinators who work well under pressure, others plan ahead and do bits and pieces – it’s the intellectual equivalent of a sprinter versus a marathon runner. Yes, there is a crucial point where you just don’t have enough time, but I would question that 24 hours isn’t enough…especially if you stay up all night drinking Mountain Dew and work the whole 24 ;)
I would also like to point out that for way way way more than the last 5 years, student theses were “published” in some form and a part of the Williams library collection. Now I believe there is/was some student choice in the matter, but my friends who wrote theses (more than 5 years ago) certainly went through that process. I believe it is also how notable alums have had pieces of what I thought were their senior theses included in various displays (I seem to recall a Sondheim exhibit in the Library at some point). No, they weren’t online but neither was anything else. Thesis presentations were also public more than 5 years ago in many departments, even if they weren’t advertised in a manner that can now be found with a google search.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:53 pm | Reply
And why contribute to the already thriving industry that writes papers for students for fees, often lifting them from the Internet (from schemes such as this and such as fly-by-night essay scholarship contests)?
May 28th, 2008 at 6:00 pm | Reply
Wow. Well said, JG.
I’d just like to add that ‘risk-taking’ is a valuable part of developing talent and creative thinking..and often not recognized or appreciated by a larger, more public audience. Hopefully a good professor can spot it and encourage it.
However, if a student agrees, and wants, to be published, that would be different…even helpful at a certain stage.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:06 pm | Reply
To clarify, my comment #10 was in response to JG’s #5. I started it, walked away to do something else and then submitted… only to find all these new comments arrived in the meanwhile.
Sheesh, a lot to catch up on!
May 28th, 2008 at 9:23 pm | Reply
To get back to the original subject–tracking the effectiveness of teaching styles/environments (which David quickly turned into a call for publishing student papers)–a huge issue here is the initial quality of the students. Given that Williams can now create a class made up of high school class presidents, or high school newspaper editors, or high school valedictorians, it will be very difficult to figure out whether later high achievement is due to the teaching environment or the fact that the entering students are overachievers already.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:18 pm | Reply
dkane can think big on this senior thesis thing.
I’m startin’ small. Just trying to get my daughter to let me read hers. Her two faculty advisors say she should publish it. Based on her grade, it must be halfway decent. We paid $175,000 so she could write it, but darn if we can get her to e-mail us a copy!
My wife and I have resorted to breathless e-mail exchanges, copied to my daughter, with things like, “Look what I found on EphBlog…a link where you can actually download and read a senior thesis!”
May 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am | Reply
I think senior theses have been included in the Williams library collection (and thus “public”) for a pretty long time. Sometime in the last few years, someone posted a link to the library site here on ephblog, and when I followed it I was surprised to find my thesis listed. I guess I consented to this years ago but I don’t remember. I also don’t remember getting a grade on my thesis – I must have for purposes of my transcript – but I do remember having to make a presentation to the department faculty.