Mon 16 Jun 2008
Morty discussed the issue of how Williams can/should ensure that the students we accept want to come and will be happy here. We have a big advantage in that lots of people seek the number one liberal arts college, especially from abroad. But does someone from Shanghai really know what they are getting into? Do they understand what it means to spend 4 years in rural New England? Morty noted that the Common Application makes it easy for someone who is already applying to Harvard and Swarthmore to just add Williams to their application list. Why not? [It is free for someone who checks the financial waiver box and, since elite colleges want more poor kids, why not check it?] Morty noted that we want to somehow tell which applicants really understand Williams and want to come here for the right reasons.
A committee of trustees (led by Bob Scott ‘68?) is actually looking at this issue and actively considering having Williams add a special essay section. Morty used the example [Not sure if this was actively under consideration?] of pointing out the course catalog and asking students to pick a few classes that they really wanted to take and to explain why. The expectation would be that students who really want to come to Williams would take the time to write these essays, would have the energy to look up the CVs of the professors and tell a compelling story. Even if this causes several thousand applicants not to apply [which seems plausible], Morty argued that this would be a feature rather than a bug. Why bother with students who aren’t that interested in Williams? They are unlikely to come even if we accept them. [And don't forget adverse selection since the ones that would come from this category are the ones that couldn't get in to any place better.] And even those that do come are less likely to be happy, contributing members of the community.
[I think that this is a great idea. In general, there are two models of Williams admissions. First is the contest. Once you set the rules (grades count for this much, SAT scores for this, X number of slots for athletes and URMs), you select the best candidates, regardless as to whether you think that they will come or be happy at Williams. You let them decide since they "won" the contest. The second model for Williams admissions is the dinner party. (Perhaps I need a better analogy? Suggestions welcome!) Although there are standards for who you most want at your party, you are especially interested in inviting people who will come and have a good time. Miserable guests make other people miserable as well. At the very best parties, all the attendees will be excited to be there.
In order to have a sense of whether this is a good idea, you would want to measure the happiness and contribution to campus life of different sorts of students, especially those who you think would have gone to the trouble of filling out an extra essay and those who wouldn't have. One (imperfect) way of getting to that would be to compare early decision Ephs (both those accepted early and those admitted regular) with other Ephs. One assumes that the ED Ephs are more likely to understand what Williams is all about and be making an informed choice. If such students are much happier and more involved in the community than a matched sample of non-ED students, then requiring an Williams-specific essay makes some sense.]
If Morty and/or the Trustees go very far down this path, it promises to be the biggest change in undergraduate admissions in a decade. Comments anyone?
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August 27th, 2008 at 6:52 am[...] time. There were more than 7,200 applications last year. Morty and the Trustees are thinking of re-introducing Williams-specific essays to decrease the number of applications from students who really aren’t that interested in [...]
June 16th, 2008 at 5:43 am
I think this is a great idea. I would claim that enjoying/leveraging Williams was easier before the U.S. News and World Report lists came out. Williams was not especially well-known nationally (and still isn’t, compared to Harvard and Yale), and so a certain amount of self-selection held sway. If you knew the name, you knew what Williams was about, because you were from New England, or were a legacy, or had some type of informed connection to the college.
Now that Williams is “The number one liberal arts college in the nation!”, there are a whole lot of people who want to attend for the snob value, and then are rudely awakened when they find out it really is different from Harvard (”Where’s Cambridge?” “Where are the students from eight other colleges in the area?”).
When I gave college tours in the early 1970’s—before the U.S. News lists came out—I was astounded at how blissfully ignorant both prospective students and their parents were about Williams and colleges in general. I would try to make it clear that Williams had pluses and minuses—”Great professors, but you are in the middle of nowhere”—which would usually get brushed aside with, “Yeah, yeah, but is it better than Yale?”. It was clear that people usually spent more time deciding on which car to buy than which college they would attend.
From what I can tell, the ignorance still stands, and anything that would help correct that would be a good thing. It is, after all, four very formative years of your life. I think it’s better to spend them at a place you love rather than at a place you hate.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:04 am
It makes sense to me. I think the additional essay(s) should be optional, so as not to totally kill Williams’ application numbers nor scare off kids (especially first generation / poorer / international kids) who don’t have a lot of time or resources to invest in substantial research early in the application process. However, given the hoardes of nearly indistinguishable candidates, at the margins those essays could make a huge difference. The only caveat: the ever-growing pool of kids who hire admissions counselors are likely to produce polished essays of this ilk for any such school who requests them, and this will not necessarily reflect a particular interest in or knowledge of Williams. Still, on the balance, I can’t see this hurting and definitely potentially helping to winnow down the application pool to those truly right for Williams.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:42 am
To follow up on my point re: admissions counselors, perhaps for the supplementary essay, Williams could add a question at the end to the effect: this essay was reviewed and/or edited by [a] a family member [b] a guidance or college admissions counselor [c] no one.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:30 am
I echo JefZ’s concern–this will benefit that students who know how to play the game, the ones with “cultural capital” in the world of colleges. Reading through and coding essays from first generation students at two ivy league institutions has given me an anecdotal basis of about 60 students that makes it clear that even at ivy league schools, a lot of first gen (not all, ofcourse, but many) did not do the type of research when applying that such an essay would request.
While the optional nature of this seems to be a means of avoiding that concern, I doubt it would be so effective in that role. I’d put my money on the students who are roughly equal but have the essay as the ones getting the last few admits. That might not seem bad, but its clear that there’s likely going to be a bias in that pool of students towards more wealthy students.
I didn’t know that I wanted rural and small Williams until I visited for accepted students weekend. Why, exactly, is that a drawback for me as a potential student? Should we throw that baby out with the bathwater? I’d rather try to make sure that every accepted student gets the best idea of what williams really is rather than create an awkward mechanism for weeding out students before giving them the opportunity to fall in love.
In your analogies, david, there’s no reason why there can’t be a contest first and then allow the opportunity to choose a school like the dinner party second. Very few students are getting into williams and not any other institution, i’d bet–let them pick!
June 16th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Why so touchy-feely? Why should Williams expend effort and money in this further unlifelike coddling? Wouldn’t both swimmers and also Williams benefit more from a sink-or-swim principle?
June 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am
What is the real utility of this new essay? Is there a real problem that this tries to address or is there just a perception that Williams is not an enjoyable college for a significant part of the population? Or is the faculty complaining that not enough students are engaged in their lectures?! I think Williams does a pretty good job picking “the right students,” already, don’t you?! You don’t really find out whether a college fits until you get into classes, anyway. This new essay just gives your admissions office more work to do.
I agree with Rory and Frank’s reasoning; this seems like needless tinkering. Does the admissions staff want to read 5,000 essays about why Williams is a great place to go to school? Plus I’d bet the best “Why Williams” essays would come from the applicants who have the deeper connections to Williams (i.e. legacies).
June 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Of course, any of these students could pull off this essay, no problem. But requiring it, could significantly cut back on the amount of students who (because of Williams’ ranking) throw it into their pile of applications, even while hoping for an acceptance elsewhere.
This scenario (of multiple applications), must complicate Admissions in so many ways. They probably end up accepting a fair amount of students who don’t end up coming (which is often not clear until the last minute)…they also end up with a few students who were turned down by their first choice school and ’settle’ for Williams (could be disappointing if you really wanted a large, urban school)…but worst of all, they end up missing students for whom Williams is a first choice.
Requiring a simple essay, could streamline the job for Admissions, and address a few other issues as well.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
One person combined Admission Office and Financial Aid Office - establish tuition, distribute application forms along with tuition schedules, put all received applications in a hat, blindly draw 1000 of them for acceptace, notify the 1000 of their acceptance, matriculate all of the 1000 responding positively to acceptance, send those to class. And voila we have a college - a low overhead one at that.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
I think it’s a good idea. Williams was the only school on both my kids’ college lists to not require some kind of supplemental essay. I think a short essay (250 words or less), maybe in response some kind of quirky question, might give Admissions some additional insight into an applicant. It would weed out some applicants who aren’t really all that interested in Williams - that’s not a bad thing. I wouldn’t ask “Why Williams” - I would feel sorry for the admissions office having to read the canned answers to that question. Ask something different! I still remember answering “describe an experience which helped you define or discern a value that you hold”.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I should probably mention that Williams and Amherst were not on the common app when I applied (few of the school’s I applied to were in those days), so many schools had their own essay requirementss; I’m viewing this through that lens
June 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I recall UChicago having very cool, very quirky essay questions … I agree that something a little more interesting than simply “why Williams” would be better (or perhaps three options, two very quirky questions, one being why Williams is someone has a particularly powerful reason to want to attend Williams in particular).
June 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
sounds like a sop for the Esther Mobley’s of the world…
June 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I used the Common App and applied to Williams at the last second, almost as an afterthought. If you don’t have a lot of money, and you haven’t visited most/any of these Northeast LACs, they all sound, for the most part, pretty similar, and you’re going to have a harder time saying something meaningful about any one in particular. (In fact, I would venture a guess that they are fairly similar - I doubt I would have had a very different experience at Amherst, had I applied there, than I did at Williams.)
I also applied to UT’s Plan 2 program (the uber honors program at UT), and I had to write an essay about goat sacrifice, so that was unusual.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Mandatory essay on goat sacrifice — sold. I think we can all agree that is the winner, no?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
On second thought, don’t require some show-off essay.
Instead, have them respond to a page on the application that sums up…
the hours, miles, and expense required to get in and out of Williamstown a few times a year…
along with a synopsis of the winter weather, (length of the season, temperatures, and snowfall, included)…
and while you’re at it, throw in a list of the weekend events available for entertainment…(also mentioning the lack of a movie theater)…
Might help to separate the Ephs from the non-Ephs…or at least eliminate a few of those ‘thrown into the pile’ applications.
June 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
My son will be entering Williams this Fall. Based on his experience visiting & applying to schools, I think the key in the admissions offices finding good matches is working with the college counselors at the high schools. My son kept in regular contact with his counselor as he was deciding on which colleges to apply to. Through this process the counselor knew what colleges would work best for my son. I’m certain he spoke directly with Williams admission office, expressing both why Williams for my son & why my son for Williams.
With the essays- only UChicago seemed to really capture my son’s imagination and intellect. I also think Chicago’s supplemental essays ensure self-selected applicants who value the “life of the mind.” (btw, my son chose Williams over Chicago because he knows there’s more than just the life of the mind.) When he began to complete his applications, I wondered why Williams did not have a supplemental essay. My guess is that fewer parameters forces both the applicant & the admissions office to focus on the important aspects (4 years of transcript, extra-curricular interests, letters of recommendation, & how the student chooses to represent him/herself in the essay) to create a picture of the student within the context of a first-year class and Williams.
As an aside, one of the reasons Williams appealed so much to my son is its sense of community, which is also reflected in this blog. As I’ve read through comments, I’ve seen not only the direct feeling of connection but also friendly bantering that must come from the experience of respect for open discussion, which I assume various of you experienced at Williams.
I look forward to my son’s next 4 years & following this blog.
June 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Interesting comments above. Agree with the proposal in theory but not in practice for reason similar to what Rory says - you’re not going to measure what you think you’re measuring.
You’re going to measure who really badly wants to come to the top rated liberal arts school in the nation, which happens to be Williams. You’re not really going to weed out people who would not fit in at Williams.
It’s not like those people who ultimately won’t fit in know it already and so will write less motivated essays. Rory is right that you’re going to get the same crowd applying to the same schools, and the people who come from a culture where they know how these things are done will do the research and write the killer essay, and the people who don’t won’t. The last thing we need there is more Yankee prep-schoolers. :)
There are some people who have a real bond to Williams and New England, and for those people, it’s possible to convey this passion through the other parts of their essay. For the rest, do we expect them to open the course book and say, “oh shoot, they don’t have an engineering program!?! What was I thinking!?!”?
June 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
To pre-Frosh Mom:
Welcome!
I, too, stumbled upon EphBlog before my frosh started at Williams. I kind of observed and followed the discussion from a distance until jumping in and becoming a regular blogger. It is fun, often challenging, sometimes frustrating…but always interesting.
Quirky, pseudo-whiny, comment (regarding weather and travel expense) aside, my frosh has had an incredible year and is very happy at Williams. It is a special place.
Though I will be morphing to SOPH mom soon, you might want to start out with a moniker other than FROSH mom for a couple of reasons:
(1) so that you don’t inherit whatever baggage I may have acquired, :-)
and
(2) so that you don’t find yourself having to change it again in a year. (I do remember David suggesting MOM ‘11 to me)
Anyway, I look forward to seeing more of you here on Ephblog.
All best,
FM soon, to be SM
June 16th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Wow, I disappear off EB for a few days to move back to DC and all kinds of interesting posts pop up!
First, welcome pre-frosh mom! I really enjoy the perspective we get from parents who are new to Williams - and as they experience it along with their kids. I know my parents learned a lot about the school through me and on their own, and you all contribute valuable perspective.
Now, I agree with many of the other posters above that this essay wouldn’t measure whatever anyone thinks they are trying to measure, and if there were to be an extra - even optional - question it would have to be much much more interesting than “Why Williams.”
The part I enjoyed the most about the Williams Ap (ok, perhaps the only part) was the peer reference. Williams was the only school to even provide the option for this. Having a friend write a rec for you, as opposed to a teacher or parent, provides a great perspective and may bring out really fun and quirky things that reveal something unique about a student. I haven’t a clue if this still happens, or if it was a trial thing when I applied or what. But it was cool.
I actually still have a copy of the letter my friend wrote me (she gave it to me in a Christmas card after the ap was in). I know that my teacher references likely didn’t tell stories of how I’d pick my friend up in my beat up old Honda when her parents were being particularly terrible and how we’d go to one of two places open late enough for us to hang out (the Starbucks and a Denny’s-like diner)…or any of the other little stories that revealed more of my character than how I did in class, the way I wrote a paper, or how dedicated I was to XYZ extracurricular.
So ditch the extra essay, but keep the optional extra peer recommendation. Or bring it back if it’s gone.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
If the essay is going to be a “why Williams” thing then I think that’s just a stupid waste of everyone’s time. If it’s quirky and fun like Princeton or UChicago then I say hell yes! It would do Williams a lot of good to gain additional insight into it’s applicants.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Oberlin had a “why Oberlin” essay requirement when I applied. It was definitely the least interesting of all the essays I had to write. Just copy the talking points from their website (the benefits of a liberal arts education, small classes, great music programs, history of progressive activism, etc.) and you’re done in about twenty minutes. It may have been a good way for the admissions people to filter out those who couldn’t even be bothered to look up basic info about the school, but it definitely wasn’t an inspiring topic.
A school’s application prompt conveys something about its character; at the very least, applicants think it does and make judgments accordingly. I was pretty happy not to have to write another essay for Williams, but if admissions really wants to require a supplemental essay, I hope they can come up with something a little better than “why Williams?”.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
JG: Williams still does peer recs, or at least they did two years ago when I applied. (although they’re optional and I didn’t submit one, largely because I didn’t really trust any of my friends to write a good rec - positive, yes; good, no). That might actually be an interesting study - whether peer recs introduce an advantage to kids that have grown up in privileged settings, because they’re more likely to have well-educated peers who are good writers.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
‘10 - I would actually be curious to talk to a Williams admissions staffer about how they view the peer recs. I guess I just assumed they’d be looking more for the different/quirky aspects and not the well-written part. I mean, the teacher recs are pretty boring anyway unless there is something bad or a particularly bizarre/fabulous thing…I vaguely remember that from Rory’s complaints - er, rapturous delight - when he was doing admissions.
Anyway, I am glad they still use it. I think it is fun and a bit unique.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
I have some experience with these kinds of essays. Swarthmore not only asks a “Why Swarthmore?” question, but Jim Bock the Admissions Dean has twice singled this essay out as being the deciding factor many times in choosing between two equally well qualified applicants. He points out that saying small classes, pretty campus, and big city location is OK, but a student who cites specifics is much more likely to get the nod.
I’ve read several dozen of these essays over the years and they are often outstanding. The good ones have specifics that comes from being really familiar with a school’s culture. The good ones also let the admissions office see what makes the student tick.
All of the successful “Why?” essays I’ve read went far beyond that level of research or creativity. None were written in 20 minutes. For the good ones, I would say that the essay was a major piece of the effort put into the entire application.
It’s a difficult essay to fake. I know because most of the colleges on my daughter’s list asked this question and she faked it on several, taking the approach you describe, because frankly she didn’t know that much about the schools. The faked essays weren’t even in the same league.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
My daughter took one look at the U Chicago essay prompts, decided that UChicago was far too pretentious for her taste, and threw their application in the trash, which I suppose is what UChicago wanted?
Now, if you want a bad essay prompt ask for an essay on “What Podunk U’s Honor Code Means to Me”. Oh my god..
June 16th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
dkane:
Your “contest” model doesn’t work at a school like Williams because the applicant pool is so strong. The conventional stuff like SATs and GPA doesn’t really differentiate between applicants very effectively. You can see this in the data Amherst publishes on their applicants, acceptees, and enrollees. Take away the ones they lose to Harvard and there simply isn’t any difference between the applicant pool and the enrolled pool from a stat standpoint.
That’s why schools turn to other measures.
June 16th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
The peer rec was part of my frosh’s application and it was a wonderful exercise for all involved. The friend who wrote it, was going through very difficult family circumstances…and in fact, practically lived with us for much of high school. The bond between this kid and mine shaped both of them in so many ways, and the letter was a wonderful way of acknowledging, and strengthening that bond, while also showing a side of my frosh’s character not easily portrayed otherwise.
As far as the “Why Williams” essay question…
It is cheezy…but an effective filter, given the concerns voiced by Morty. It is a way to insure the applicant does their homework re the unique aspects of Williams.
For the student who is adding the Williams application to a big stack, (of which Williams may not be their top choice), this essay could be enough to make them reconsider. And for the student who really doesn’t want a small, out of the way campus, but hasn’t been made fully aware of this aspect, then this essay could also be a way to weed them out.
And most important…for the student who really appreciates all the characteristics that are truly Williams, then it gives them a chance to voice this and not be missed in the shuffle of SATs and GPAs and other traditional measures.
I think it is really an effort on the part of Morty, and Admissions, to streamline the admissions process…by getting rid of the excess ‘yeses’ who don’t end up attending, and making room for those who really want to be there.
June 16th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I’ve certainly heard Phil Smith say more than once that the peer reference is a great bullshit detector (although to be fair, he used a much more polite term). He said sometimes they’d get great recommendations from teachers/coaches, etc., and it was the peer who would say, “He’s does all that stuff for window dressing so he can get into a good school; in daily life he’s really a jerk.” I don’t think they took the peer’s comment as the sole predictor, but rather would press the college counselor with, “By the way, we’ve heard that…” and the counselor would then often come clean.
June 16th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I believe MS’s way of putting it was something like “I’d gladly have 45-hundred applications instead of 75-hundred if the difference was we didn’t get people who are applying to Bates and check off Williams because the box is there.”
June 16th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
The “special essay” is bogus. Far too many kids have their parents write (or substantially overhaul) application essays.
Requiring an interview would be a much more sound move for Williams. Unless the applicant is a puppet and the parent is a marionette, Joey pre-Frosh will have to fend for himself..
For applicants living far from any Williams volunteer alumni, no problem!! A phone interview can suffice.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:14 am
I doubt Williams will go to an evaluative interview (do any of the top schools use one).
However, I do think that a 250 word “imagine that you’re a graduating senior at Williams…what has been your most valuable course and why” essay (or something similar) would be incredibly helpful to admissions. A topic that asks applicants to look through the course catalog is great not only because it will basically eliminate anyone who is thoughtlessly checking off the box–either because they won’t do the extra work of applying, or because the essay will force them to put some thought into their application to Williams. If the essay was fairly short and painless, I wouldn’t expect applications to drop significantly, but I would expect yield to increase–forcing students to educate themselves more about Williams, especially in this way, can only be a good thing. While such an essay might be pretty chock full of BS, and while it might favor students with slick guidance counselors, if Admissions is told to mostly (or entirely) disregard the essay, that becomes a non-issue.
All of that said, while I think there is value to asking students to write some form of essay for Williams, I do not think that we should go to a “Why Williams” (or other generic) essay. As a previous poster mentioned, these essay requirements are a reflection on the school…as I am sure most people would agree, UChicago’s essays do a very good job of reflecting a fairly central aspect of that school (ie: they’re quirky and intellectual). A “Why Williams” essay reflects the generic quality in admissions that Williams works so hard to avoid.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Middlebury does evaluative alumni interviews, and it tries to arrange them for every applicant. They present it mostly as an opportunity for you to learn more about them, but the interviewer is supposed to report back their general impression of whether they thought the kid would be a good fit at Midd, among other things.
I’d hate to have to answer the “most valuable course” question. The best courses are never what you think they’re going to be, because the best courses are the ones that blow your mind, surprise you with a new way of looking at something. That’s hard to predict. Still, it’s a much better question than “why Williams”.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:54 am
I submitted a peer rec in the last cycle - for me, it was easily the most flavorful of the things sent in.
In regards to the original post, I think an essay of that sort (pick a course, tell us why) would be a good choice. Generic “Why Williams” aren’t good essays, especially since those reasons will of the be the ones from the Admissions tour guides, creating a positive feedback loop.
Other options would be allowing the student to talk about their experience visiting Williams - what surprised them and so on, or how the school is different from its peers.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:29 am
You guys are seriously underestimating the quality and creativity you would get in response to a “Why Williams?” prompt.
The beauty of the prompt is that it is so open-ended. For example, you will get straight forward essays written about campus visits. You will also get some really creative stuff. Like the essay I read that took the form of a student telling her priest about the small liberal arts college where she had been accepted, seeing the lack of name recognition on his face, and the internal dialog whether to bother communicating why she was so excited about the opportunity or just saying, “it’s a small college near….”
The good ones always tell something about the student and how the student envisions fitting into to the tapestry of the college and why.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:38 am
If an applicant is willing to make the effort to write an additional essay that is unique to Williams, I think that should be evidence enough that they’re really interested in going to Williams. Just because I can come up with talking points about the college doesn’t mean that I’m a good fit for the school, I’d much rather see something where admissions could go, “wow, that student is kind of a jerk” or “judging by this quirky essay, I think that they may like Williams for an additional reason that the student may not even be aware of”.
Of the current students/recent graduates who came to Williams and it wasn’t a good fit, I think a great deal of those thought they knew what they were getting into and didn’t mesh well with Williams for reasons that wouldn’t have been evident in the “why Williams” essay.
Furthermore, an essay like “why Williams” is horribly biased toward students who can visit Williams, have access to multiple alumni who can give them a variety of viewpoints including alumni who didn’t like Williams, or has some connection to Williams prior to coming. Someone from the middle of nowhere in the Midwest, at a school that has never sent anyone to Williams can only read so much stuff on the internet and i think a lot of essays from these types of students will reflect that.
Trust me, the Ephs who will say “here’s why I hated it at Williams” aren’t the one’s who are going to be piping up on message boards or Ephblog or doing alumni interviews. Yet, students who were brutal honest at other colleges were among the most helpful in my decision making process and I only met these students when visiting the campus.
Here’s a thought, why not make the essay “why not Williams?” An essay that forces students to write about their incompatability with the college is far more telling than the “why williams?” And would allow admissions to right away see what about the student might not be a good fit and take that into consideration as opposed to trying to see through the “why Williams?” BS and guess what might not be a good fit.
June 17th, 2008 at 6:51 am
What’s all the hand wringing about? If I were a potential applicant, and Williams were seeking to burden me with special essay or other special application requirements, I would bag Williams and would move on to the next candidate college on my my list, whether it be Amherst, Pomona, WashU or Forest Park Community College (in St. Louis sometimes called FoPoKoKo). Is Williams so arrogant and inconsiderate as to think that I have nothing better to do than write its shit-ass essay? If it cares, let the Williams Admission Office figure out without my help whether I would be a “happy” student at Williams. If it doesn’t like my attitude, so be it -there are lots of other fish in the ocean.
June 17th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Not that it is necessarily relevant, but I’m pretty sure Amherst has had supplemental essays for years - and they aren’t easy topics.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:40 am
wow, so much action on this thread!
a couple questions in a disjointed manner:
1. What exactly is the problem? How serious is it?
2. Do the schools with a supplemental essay not have the same problem?
3. Would this additional requirement benefit those will cultural capital? Is there any way to avoid that? (this is a slightly less severe problem for the peer rec.)
4. Why only want students who know what they want at 18? Why expect students to know that? A lot of the best students in graduating class seriously didn’t know what they were getting as frosh. because of that, many of them worked to change/improve it.
And now, disjointed thoughts from my brief experience as a college admissions officer:
1. Most students, even those who love the school, are not creative essay writers. Sorry. 9/10 of the essays will be lumpable. Plus, those who can write a unique “why williams” essay probably wrote a unique common app. essay.
2. Teacher recommendations generally fell into two categories: really forgettable and short, or really forgettable and long. It’s a process of reading 20 that sound roughly the same so you can find the 1 or 2 that are really special. I guess that’s what this essay requirement is hoping to do as well, but I’m not convinced that 1 deserves the boost just because they know they want williams.
3. Evaluative interviews were probably the least reliable part of the admissions process. So much depended on who did the interview, how they felt when they wrote the interview up, etc. There are some great stories (like the girl who admitted to cocaine use to my friend) but generally, again, it’s the rare exception to the rule.
4. A peer recommendation, on the other hand, could offer unique insight into a student. Plus, because it isn’t the applicant, normal negatives like poor grammar or organization are not a big deal to a reader (I’d bet).
There’s no way for a perfect admissions system. There is, however, a way for a more perfect yield system. I don’t know what williams does now, but my pre-frosh visit told me a lot about what williams is and gave me the chance to pick. Williams should consider how it can make that type of visit an even more common experience for accepted students (how many go? I think we had about 200–but that was almost 10 years ago).
June 17th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Frank, Frank, Frank,
ROTFL…funniest comment in quite a while…and perfectly illustrates the whole point of the essay, while also making me reconsider the value of it. I mean, they would have lost Frank! Terrible! For Frank…and for Williams!
And another surprise for me this morning…I am in complete agreement with hwc. I can’t believe how ‘literal’ everryone is with the “Why Williams” question. It is beautifully expansive in subject possibilities. It could cover just about everything you have all brought up, from course catalog choices and professors, to a personal, inward look at how one personally fits into the “tapestry of the college”.
The point of the question would be to get the applicant to focus on Williams for a few moments. And those few moments could mean the difference in getting a lot of rote applications, off the Admissions table.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Rory asks, “1. What exactly is the problem? How serious is it?” Judging from Morty’s comments (at reunion and at a College Council meeting in the spring), the issue is two fold. First, Williams does not want 20,000 applications. Who needs that headache? Who wants to process that many pieces of paper? Who wants to turn down 19,000 applicante, i.e., make 19,000 (smart) people hate you?
Williams, is, of course still far away from 20,000 applicants, but that is the clear direction in the trend. (I think that applications have increased by several thousand (50%? more?) since Morty became president.
The second issue is one of selection, of ensuring that the people that Williams picks are happy here. The connection between the two issues, obviously, is that one would hope to solve the first by working on the second, by figuring out (somehow) which students were not a good “match” for Williams even if they were as smart and virtuous as any Eph. Morty claimed no insights on how to do this, but it is clearly a topic under active consideration by he and the trustees.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Rory,
My guess is that they are getting bogged down with a lot of acceptances that don’t end up coming…and a few who didn’t know what to expect once arriving.
The student body has changed. There are a lot more international students, and more students from other parts of the U.S. If you are applying from Turkey, or China, and your goal is to get into an elite US school, then Williams ends up on that list…when Harvard is really the goal.
And the whole application process has changed. I know students who applied to 15-20 schools. No lie.
All of these factors could mean they are trying to find a way to ‘cut’ some of the applications…that is, the ones that don’t really make Williams the priority.
If this is the case, then Amherst would have much the same issue…
June 17th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Other thoughts.
1. An interesting comparison is to places like St. Johns (read only the Great Books) which don’t get a lot of applicants but do, on the whole, find they get just the sort of applicants that they want to get, students who are highly qualified and who really want to be there. Is there a Williams analog to this? I don’t know. When giving tours, I always told people that if you were a “city person,” someone who really wanted to go into the city each Friday night and go to the latest club, try the newest restaurant and so on, then you should not go to Williams. (Was this good advice? Comments welcome!) Perhaps the same still applies. There were, in my class, a non-zero number of students who did not want to spend 4 years in the middle of nowhere and were eager to get out. I assume that there are still students like that now. Wouldn’t Williams be doing them a favor by either discouraging them from applying and/or rejecting them once they do? Again, I think that this discussion has the potential to lead to the biggest changes in Williams admissions in the last decade. Time to talk about it! I agree with Rory that it would be really good to get a sense of what other schools do and what their experiences are.
2. I do not think that we need to worry about culture capital and other impacts on these sorts of changes. Students from elite prep schools with highly educated parents have an advantage in the current process just as they would have an advantage with any additions under discussion here. But, it is straightforward for the admissions office to “adjust” for these advantages just as they adjust for high school quality. (It does not matter how many APs you take. What matters is that you take the most rigorous program that your high school offers.)
So, Williams can still have as many URMs or low socio-ec or whatever even if those students are, on average, less good at writing a “Why Williams?” essay. The point of the essay would, presumably, to distinguish among students in various categories. If you have 20 applicants from Shanghai, all with great grades and scores, then take the 2 who take the trouble to write the extra Williams essay, to show that they really want to be Ephs. Reject the 18 who just sent in a Common Application, even if those 18 have slightly higher grades/scores. You are still taking two kids from Shanghai, just as we do now, but two different kids.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:40 am
We’ve got guesses as to what the problem is, but no identification of an actual problem. Is it the large number of applications? Is yield changing dramatically? Are they afraid of changes based on the push against ED, etc?
Like with research, no good comes without a good question and basis of knowledge. In this case, I’m not sure what the question is, and none of us have any good facts to serve as the basis of identifying whether or not the question is a problem. As david notes, are other schools having similar issues? Is this really a concern with the demographic shifts that are coming (less children overall, but will that creep to the elite college applicant pool?)?
I find it problematic to resolve the issue of bad student matches by making the application more strenuous–it seems like an indirect method of trying to do something direct. For example, what makes St. Johns avoid this issue is not its strenuous application process but its well-designed niche marketing. Is that what williams wants? No, I don’t think it is. I didn’t even know St. Johns existed, and that was partly by designed–I wasn’t their student, they weren’t my school. I don’t think the williams experience is nearly as exclusively designed. Nor do I believe it should be.
Adjusting for cultural capital, while somewhat feasible and certainly desirable, is not easy at all. Adjusting for relative course difficulty is not adjusting for knowing how to craft a (falsely?) appealing image of oneself. These types of essays sound particularly ripe for a cultural capital divide, even if only used for within category comparisons (how do you set up those categories? Does the poor black kid at Deerfield via prep for prep count for the poor urban black category or the preppy rich kid category? What about the one at an average private school?). Your example is the easiest example for your case.
I’m not quite convinced. While I don’t dislike the idea of some supplement, I do not like the idea of using the application as a weeding process for identifying who “likes” williams. Rather, I prefer it for identifying who “can gain from and add to” williams. Those are two differently designed supplements. I think “why williams” falls more into the first category.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:59 am
That is precisely what an effective Why Williams? essay does. It presents attributes of the college, characteristics of the student, and how the two match up in some way. A good Why Williams? essay allows the admissions office to literally imagine the student walking around campus interacting with the Williams culture.
BTW, an added benefit of this essay topic is that it gives the college a direct pipeline into the the perceived brand image of Williams in the heads of several thousand well-qualified college applicants. As mentioned above this is a marketing feedback loop, but the kind most businesses would pay handsomely to try to get from focus groups. What do these kids think of Williams? Does it match what Williams thinks of itself? Are signficant attributes of the college not being effectively communicated to applicants?
June 17th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Rory:
I think most of the ‘weeding out’ would happen before the application arrives on the Admissions desk.
Just the exercise of asking the applicant to spend a few moments thinking about Williams would accomplish that. The ‘rote’, ‘throw it on the pile’ applicant, might think twice, and a few might even realize the school isn’t right for them.
And, you can’t really lump Williams in with other schools that ask for essays. It is in a unique category because of the ranking. It has made it’s way on to a particular list of schools that are mostly, very different (from Williams), as far as size, name-recognition, and setting…
And per David’s comments, and Ken’s, I gathered that Morty did identify the problem as (partly), having too many applications…
Anyway, it is an interesting discussion and has caused me to reflect on that whole process…so recent, and yet not!
My frosh was an ED…a terrific way to go.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Rory,
I think we all knew students at Williams who had not done their research about the school or who made their decision to attend Williams based far more on prestige than on “fit.” Some of them were happy, nonetheless, and some were unhappy. There is no doubt in my mind that a far higher percentage of these students were unhappy at Williams than the group of students that had done their research thoroughly and knew what “they were getting into.” Given how many great students Williams turns away every year, and how indistinguishable many of the rejected candidates are from many of the accepted candidates, there is no doubt in my mind that the Williams Admissions Office wish they had a better way of distinguishing between these two groups of applicants.
A secondary problem (but very related) is not just that these students are accepted to Williams, but that they decide to attend–it’s in Williams’ best interest for matriculating students to be the best possible match for the school. The flip side of this problem is that there surely are a significant number of admitted students who would be best off at Williams, but matriuclate at other schools. Obviously Williams can’t make these decisions for the admitted students…but anything Williams does that effectively requires students to educate themselves more about Williams, is a good thing–better researched students will presumably be more or less likely to attend Williams, depending on how good of a “fit” it is for them. The final issue is that there are surely a non-negligeable number of students who would be equally well off at Williams as with another school who choose that other school for no substantial reason. It would be in Williams’ best interest if more of these students matriculated as well–they are great matches for Williams, Williams is a great match for them, and many of them are choosing Brown or UChicago (or similar schools) on primarily non-rational grounds (they ran into more cute girls at Brown, or the UChicago essays just caught their interest a bit more).
Consequently, any proposed solution should address all of these issues. Some sort of required essay seems far from perfect in addressing these issues, but I can’t think of anything better. A required “Why Williams” essay would probably off the bat discourage some students from applying to Williams (and as discussed above, because such students as a whole are less happy at Williams than the rest of the applicant pool, that would not be a bad thing). If Admissions did decide to consider the essays, most likely their consideration would be focused on weeding out the obvious poor fits (I am sure they will get 1-2 “Why Harvards” as well as a handful of “I can’t wait to take finance classes…”) and giving the edge to the handful of gems. However, I do not think we should be concerned about what sort of socio-economic bump would come with these essays, because I think it is unlikely that the evaluative effects of the essay would reverberate beyond an incredibly small handful of students. Additionally, it would get some students to research Williams more closely than they would otherwise, which would allow them to ultimately make a better decision for or against Williams. Finally, as hwc and froshmom point out, it may even spark several admitted students’ creative juices enough that it serves as the somewhat arbitrary “bump” that causes them to choose Williams over Brown.
However, I do think that of most potential essay topics, the “Why Williams” topic meets the above criteria worse than average. I am sure we only have anecdotal evidence to run on, but UChicago’s essays appear to be a great example of what we should aim at. To begin with, as an additional requirement (an additional non-generic requirement, at that!), the essays surely cause some students who were never really interested in Chicago in the first place from applying. More crucially, however, the essays ask students to engage critically with a fairly central aspect of Chicago’s personality–that “quirky intellectualism” that a poster above mentioned. Students submit these essays with a far better understanding of “what they’re getting into” at Chicago than when they started. Surely this causes some students to go elsewhere, but I am sure it also leads to some students who would have otherwise gone to Brown or Dartmouth to go to Chicago. Finally, because the essay topics are engaging, they seem to factor effectively into toss-up decisions; a perfect example is earlier in this thread–pre-frosh mom’s kid almost chose Chicago over Williams in part because of the essays.
I am not arguing that Williams should pick topics similar to Chicago’s topics–I think we are no less intellectual of a place than Chicago, but the campus atmosphere is different (IMO it is much healthier at Williams, but that’s beside the point) and we would be misrepresenting ourselves to assign mirror essays. I am not sure exactly what sort of required essay would capture an essential characteristic of Williams without encouraging essay writers to fall into cliche. I do like the suggestion of “pick a course and write about it”…it’s a topic everyone is on equal playing ground for (the course catalog is online), and it asks students to engage directly with what is one of the most central aspects of Williams. After looking through the course catalog and getting excited about a course while writing about it, I am sure that a number of students who would have otherwise chosen Harvard will instead (make the correct decision for them) and choose Williams. Additionally, I am sure there are students who would probably be better suited at a non-Williams school who will realize this looking through the catalog. Finally, I am sure anyone who has looked at a course catalog will agree with me in saying that it reflects amazing well on Williams–the number of small and tiny classes are enormous and so many of the classes look absolutely unbelievable. Surely, this would “bump” a significant number of toss-up potential matriculating students into the Williams camp. I am not sure that this essay could be used to evaluate at all, because it is truly an essay topic with no wrong answer (except possibly to weed out applicants who write about courses that are not and have never been offered at Williams). I am sure Williams will get some boring “bio 101 will help me get into med school” essays, but any topic Williams assigns will solicit some absolutely awful responses, so that shouldn’t be a deal killer.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Why should Williams desire to enroll a whole slew of students who are so naive, misinformed and emotionally unbalanced that they believe that Williams is absolutely, unconditionally, unquestionably THE ONE for them bar none to the extent that they are more than willing to sweat bullets over writing an essay on the silly subject, “Why Williams”? That mind-set is about as dumb as David’s insistence that one fall in love during Winter Study.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Frank,
Because Williams knows that the secret to success starts with knowing how to effectively, convincingly, and charmingly, kiss a little ‘you-know-what’.
Just think of this essay as the very beginning of the Williams education.
June 17th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Swarthmore reports on their Common App filing that the interview is “Considered” in admissions.
Considered is the third of four options:
Very Important
Important
Considered
Not Considered
The application essays are listed as Very Important.
My favorite interview story involves a friend of my daughter who spent a year as an admissions intern doing interviews while at Swarthmore. He sat in stunned amazement during one interview as an applicant volunteered that she and her friends in high school liked to bash the gay kids. The poor girl had no clue whatsoever that:
a) the college where she was interviewing is extremely gay friendly
b) the admissions guy interviewing her was a gay student at the school.
Somewhere back in East Overshoe, somebody is surely wondering why such an outstanding applicant (lord, please let her have 2400 SATs) got rejection letters! I’m pretty sure that her interview was indeed considered by the admissions office.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
mom: Then Williams ought to establish a major in sycophancy.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Nobody has commented, but I think the most intriguing part of dkane’s story is that the question of application essays is a Board of Trustees level consideration.
I don’t know what to make of that, really. It doesn’t seem like that big a deal, one way or the other. Seems like a decision Morty and Nesbitt could manage on their own.
As for concern about 20,000 applications: I think that the record numbers of applications have pretty much topped out. Fall 2009 and fall 2010 enrollments are the top of the demographic bulge and we’ve already seen pretty much the full impact of the online Common App. Application rates are also self-correcting. Students aren’t going to keep applying to schools where they they have an 85% chance of getting rejected. With the economy turning south, I wouldn’t be surprised if apps start to tail off a bit.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I wonder to what extent a “why williams” essay would affect those students unable to visit the college before applying or even before First Days.
For students like that, everything they hear about a college is essentially hearsay, anyway. You end up writing such an essay based on rumors, maybe an interview (I didn’t have one!), internet research, the college’s own pr, and Princeton Review. You had better hope that such a student is more creative with those essays, and doesn’t take such a narrow approach to answering the question (”It’s rural and I really like cows!”), as discussed above.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Again, my main purpose here is not to argue one side of the case or the other. My main goal is reporting. I think that Morty’s statement (and, as hwc notes, trustee involvement) mean that this is a very important and active policy area. Stay tuned for more news.
In terms of substance, my sense (and perhaps my special Morty-mind-reading-goggles are not the latest model) is that Morty does not like having unhappy kids at Williams when he knows that there are so many would-be-happy kids that Williams rejects that are, for most practical purpose, indistinguishable from the unhappy ones. He wants to replace the unhappy ones with the happy ones. A side benefit might be a decrease in the number of applications, but that is not the main benefit. And note that yield is no longer included in US News ranking, so Williams would pay no penalty for having fewer applicants.
Obviously, Morty recognizes that Williams needs to keep getting better, that there are things that the College could do differently that would turn some (few?) unhappy kids into happy kids. But my guess is that he sees much easier progress to be made on the admissions front.
The question then becomes: How do you change the Williams admissions process to make it more likely than will-be-unhappy kids don’t apply and/or are rejected while increasing the odds for would-be-happy kids, all the while keeping other desirable metrics (academic qualifications, diversity, tips, et cetera) at least constant.
Suggestions welcome!
June 17th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I’m having a hard time buying the “unhappy student” theory, mostly because I have seen no evidence to suggest that Williams has any unhappy students (to speak of).
Just as they never really came right out and said why they rammed through the cluster housing plan, I don’t expect Morty and the Board to ever come clean on this one. However, the board level involvement suggests the possibility that that Morty is looking for a tool to nudge the admissions criteria in some direction or another. It doesn’t make sense that the nuts and bolts of the application would be the Board level concern here. The nuts and bolts must follow some bigger admissions goal, it seems to me.
June 17th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Cluster housing was not “rammed through”…there were problems with how it was decided upon and rolled out, but let’s avoid hyperbole, please.
Also, there are obviously students at Williams who are unhappy. I think there are far fewer than at most of its peer schools (and Williams’ exit survey results seem to back that up), but there are, without a doubt, a not insignificant number of unhappy students at Williams.
June 17th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Really? Are you saying that the surveys were wrong and that there was widespread student support for the cluster housing plan? dkane, what do you think? Did you see widespread student support?
Again, I see no evidence to suggest that Williams College has any more or less “unhappy” students than any other top college. As you point out, the exit surveys don’t hint at any pervasive dissatisfaction beyond the usual distribution of whiners in any college age sample. Where is the evidence of unhappy students?
June 17th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
No, I’m saying that Cluster Housing was the result of the correct process, a process that included current students, alumni, faculty, and administrators, and solicited a significant amount of student input. It’s misleading to describe any change made against the desires of the majority of students as “rammed through.” I’m not arguing the proposal was popular or without fault.
Anyways, just because Williams doesn’t have a large amount of unhappy students doesn’t mean we couldn’t have fewer than we do! You make this mistake all of the time, hwc. Williams is always working to be a better place than it is, so we should expect Williams to be frequently addressing “concerns” that are not a relatively huge problem. Williams has–according to exit surveys–one of the happiest and most satisfied groups of college students in the country. It could, however, still have a happier and more satisfied group of students…so why not work towards that goal?
June 17th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Right. So, why would the relatively few unhappy students elevate application essays to a Board of Trustees level agenda item? That’s the part that makes no rational sense whatsoever. Boards don’t care about Application Supplements and admissions essays.
I mean, what’s next? The Board deciding what brand of salsa to use for taco bar night in the dining halls?
For the board to be involved, the underlying reason for changing the application procedure must really be some larger discussion, such as admissions priorities, (what kind of students does Williams College want and how do we identify them?) That’s the sort of stuff a Board would be involved with.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
The crucial term in your post is “relatively few.” Just because there are “relatively few” unhappy students at Williams doesn’t mean there are an acceptably few number of unhappy students at Williams.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I think it’s safe to say that the students who visit the school beforehand are more likely to be happy campers once there.
But with the new reach for diversity, there are now many more students for which a visit just isn’t feasible. And international students especially, would have difficulty getting a sense of the school… for a host of reasons. You add that to the fact that the ranking is putting Williams on a list in which it may not always be a first choice, and the fact that students are applying to many more colleges simultaneously… and you then have a surge, not only in applications, but in approved applicants who don’t opt for W… and possibly a growing number of students who have trouble fitting in once there.
A new problem needs a new approach, and thus it seems justified that Morty and the Board would be brought into it.
However, they can’t demand that students visit, so finding a way to get the students to do a bit more research on their own via an essay seems like a possible solution.
Maybe they should consider having one of three scenarios be a prerequisite to acceptance, just one…
* A visit
* An interview, by phone, if not in person (with a set of questions that have required the student to do a bit of research re classes, professors and campus)
* An essay that addresses roughly the same issues as above
Suggestions… FWIW.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
FM soon-to-be SophM & JG- thanks for the welcome. I thought I’d start as pre-frosh for the summer while I think of a permanent name.. something with ‘12 makes sense.
I agree that the main problem with a “Why Williams” essay is that it can devolve into pandering. My son was thoughtful in the ones he had to do, but he did have a strategy. Each one had the same theme- the school’s ability to promote mentoring. He then wrote about an experience he had when visiting the campus & placed it and his desire for mentoring in the context of the school’s ethos.
Theoretically, a “why us” essay could lead to a student realizing the school isn’t for them, which is what happened with my son with another LAC. However, he decided to complete the application and pay the fee because it wasn’t much work after he had spent time visiting, sitting in on classes, & going through an interview. I would imagine other potential applicants would do the same.
I strongly believe that the main issue that students have to resolve is deciding where they will be happiest. Unfortunately, when they are applying and weighing acceptance letters, they are only 17-18 years old. Plus, what they want at the beginning of searching and applying will most likely evolve. The best any college can do is to represent itself clearly. Obviously, here and as part of the admissions spiel, Williams has very involved, proud alumni. Having alumni present their experiences at admissions gatherings away from Williamstown might help create a vivid picture of student life.
Also, I’d be interested in knowing what is making the current students unhappy. It could help lead to positive changes for them through changes on the campus, as well as help to determine what kind of student is more apt to be happy at Williams. I wonder if many students don’t realize how involved an intellectual experience they’ll have in classes probably smaller in size than they’re used to, or have difficulties becoming engaged in a small community.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Cluster housing was rammed through. It could have been rammed through harder, it’s true, but it was still rammed through. But this is not the place to debate that I suppose.
There were definitely malcontents in my time, hwc. They often ended up in the Odd Quad, the subculture of the College that would most closely describe my affiliation, though not entirely, but good enough. Many of the Odd Quadders were sort of holing up there, away from what they considered “mainstream” Williams, the most discontent resenting the ways of the school at large and/yet extremely grateful for the refuge of the Odd Quad.
It was a matter of perspective. On the one hand, you could see the Quad as a place that existed despite Williams culture, or as a place that was very much a small and accepted part of the whole. I saw it more like the latter, as did most of the Quad as far as I could see. I suppose it is a lot like how if you are heritageX you can be a hertitageX person in America or you can be a heritageX-American.
While my comments about anchor housing and the malcontents may have no apparent tie, they became closely connected as the new system’s implementation became apparent. The greatest miscalculation of Will Dudley and the rest of the CUL was that they didn’t realize that, when the system’s implementation became imminent in 2005, there would be one segment of campus that would instantly feel targeted for destruction, and stridently oppose it. I don’t think he saw that coming, but it made sense: the move to kill students’ ability to freely affiliate in houses would kill the refuge-like nature of the Quad. The CUL’s position was that this was part of the point, that students who “isolated themselves” were not getting all they should out of a Williams education. Explicitly, now, the Quad was a “despite Williams” segment. It was much harder to be a part of it and be happy with Williams as a whole.
Two more cents: I had no idea of Williams’ reputation before I came. By sophomore year, I recognized how lucky I’d gotten. But when I was feeling down my rock was that there was a contradance group at Williams, wasn’t one at any other college I applied to, and for that reason alone I could never regret coming. But I didn’t know contradance, let alone the group for it, existed before I came to college. Single greatest new interest I ever discovered.
I chose Williams because my pre-frosh weekend host was eager to welcome me, dopey, and enough like me that I trusted I would find a place for myself here. Also, the weather was good.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:39 am
I see no evidence that any of that is a problem. Yes, applications are up, meaning more rejection letters. But, yield has not fallen. Accepted students are enrolling at the same raes they always have. Graduation rates are high…the highest ever in the history of the college.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Jonathan ‘05:
If I am correct that Morty and the Board are only discussing revised admissions policies in the context of desiring some change in the student body at Williams (”don’t fix it if it ain’t broke”):
Do you think Morty wants more or fewer Odd Quadders?
June 18th, 2008 at 2:25 am
“I see no evidence of that…”
You love that line don’t you, hwc? Count the times that you use it.
In fact, I do see evidence of it. And let me just insinuate (like you often do) that I have some ‘inside information’ (that you may not have)…and then I will leave you hanging (as to whether or not I really do). ;-)
You did bring up an interesting point earlier… having to do with the demographic bulge topping out…which has me thinking that maybe they are restructuring and planning ahead for a new market…
June 18th, 2008 at 4:02 am
LOL (FM).
I have to recall running into a ‘98 student in the Berkshire Quad while visiting in ‘96 or so, whose reaction to my being on campus so often (2-3 times/month) was “why would you possibly want to come back here(?)[ when you live in San Francisco](?)”
We were failing her, somehow, (though it’s not simple, ‘coddling’ not being in my notion of how the College should operate).
A comparative analysis of MS’s presentation this year– which was far more controlled, and close to half as long– to his presentation last year, — “would be an interesting and revealing exercise.” (Note that the camera went away for his session– it would have been quite more subtle a gesture to leave it in place).
Also interesting to note that the audience this year was probably, on average, two decades older. This year there was no heckling– but a very serious series of questions, mostly from the ’48s, who IMHO managed to be somewhat more progressive than I.
And surely, MS was playing to his audience in raising this issue and many others.
Williamstown is not rural (at least not according to those who have chronicled ‘urbanity’), btw, (or when viewed from the ‘longue duree’ of human experience), and there are some values choices which are being missed here– at the very least.
Interpretations to the reader.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Excuse me - I’ve got to go - it’s been good to meet you. All this anal retentive stuff doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve decided to enroll at FoPoKoKo. It’s inexpensive and close to home and is a hangout for a lot of my buds, who although underachieving are loose and fun. If you are in St. Louis, call me, and we’ll go to something at the Pageant with a visit to Pi afterward. Pi has fantastic ambience and the best damn pizza - you wouldn’t believe it. I know some WashU guys who are similar to you and whom you might like, and we’ll ask them along - hopefully they won’t be too busy.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Frank, I’m about ready to say adieu to this thread and join you for pizza, but Ken has got my attention for the moment…
Ken,
Williamstown may not be rural (in the strict sense of the word), but what other description would you give a campus that requires (from an even larger percentage of it’s student body, these days,) a seemingly endless array of trains, planes, and cars to get to and from?
And surely this location is a factor to those who aren’t fully aware of it upon arriving? For example, the students for which a pre-acceptance visit isn’t feasible?
And, aren’t these the students least likely to be happy?
And possibly, all this essay business about happier students could be a round-about way of rethinking the reach for international diversity?
You know me…just a couple of simple questions [...]
June 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
I’m with Frank - I did not apply to Princeton solely because of their ‘cool & quirky’ essay, though I almost certainly would have been a better ‘fit’ there than at Williams. I really did great and had a great time at Williams, but I agree with Frank’s general position that a college, for some people like myself, is a place to learn, grow, and meet some interesting people for a few years, and that can be done in any number of unexpected places.
In any case, I remember rolling my eyes at how easy it was to game the process as it was fairly transparent what most schools were asking for - not that my app was not true, but there are a lot of aspects to myself that I could have emphasized, and I chose to emphasize the one that I knew they would want. So, for me, a lot of this stuff really is just measuring cultural capital and the ability to gain systems, useful traits in themselves, so possibly something we would want to measure, but not something which would solve the issues President Schapiro seeks to address.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Of course they are. Every college in America, even those without empirical economists at the helm, has studied the College Board demographic charts, region by region. Many are nervous about the fact that their century long customer base (white students from the northeast and mid-atlantic) is expected to decline sharply in absolute numbers.
First the ride up to the top of the roller-coaster. Change in public school graduates from 1994 to 2005:
New England states
Asian: +54%
Black: +43%
Hispanic: +86%
White: +23%
Middle states (inc. NY)
Asian: +47
Black: +38%
Hispanic: +72%
White: +14%
And then the steep downhill run, the sharp corners, and the loop-de-loops. Change in public school graduates from 2005 to 2022 (relative to same 1994 baseline):
New England states
Asian: +137%
Black: +3%
Hispanic: +165%
White: -30%
Middle states (inc. NY)
Asian: +116%
Black: -8%
Hispanic: +182%
White: -22%
The declining numbers of white high school graduates in the Middle and New England states has college presidents studying their markets closely. Why do you think “diversity” is such a priority? I would also suggest that marketing effectively to Hispanic and Asian customers requires some tweaking of the traditional product and brand. For example, Asian American college students binge drink at half the rate of white students, so schools that have cultivated their hard-partying brand image may not be ideally positioned in the marketplace.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Pretty astounding charts, hwc…and their significance has a lot more bearing than on just this (overly-flogged) thread.
And I guess every student demographic has their issues to consider.
For example, Asian American college students may drink less…but (I think?) they report higher levels of depressive symptoms than their (binge-drinking or not) white counterparts. Something else to think about in the context of the importance of having happy students…
June 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Eliminate the football team - bring on the ping pong teams.