Wed 5 Nov 2008
“We are and always will be The United States of America” Barack Obama 4 November, 2008
Posted by Dick Swart under 1 at 1:50 am
Flags Jasper Johns 1968.
(Stare at the white dot in the upper flag while you count to 10, then look at the black dot in the lower flag)
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34 Responses to ““We are and always will be The United States of America” Barack Obama 4 November, 2008”
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Soph Mom says:
Perfect, Prez.,…absolutely perfect.
What a great day, nay?
Now, as Larry says, it’s time to get to work!
:-)
November 5th, 2008 at 1:55 amfrank uible says:
I ain’t goin’ to stare at no stinkin’ flags.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:58 amnuts says:
When something is new to us, we treat it as an experience. We feel that our senses are awake and clear. We are alive.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:30 pmPTC says:
There is something bothering me this am. Prop 8 in California passed with strong minoroty support. Black voters supported the measure 7 to 3.
Obama includes gays in his message. Why is it that prop 8 passed?
Thousands of marriages were voided and kids were made bastards yesterday, “seperate but equal” was supported while the nation overcame the hardest civil rights struggle in our History.
Why?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pmkthomas says:
PTC:
First, I think it’s worth saying that not everyone in the gay community believes in “gay marriage,” though it seems widely popular.
At the risk of pun-ditry, my suspicion (and I’ve not looked at the numbers) is that the framing of Prop 8– claims that churches would be denied tax-exempt status, etc.– was very effective in distorting this already highly distorted issue.
That said, a county-by-county map of the Prop 8 vote, separated by race, would potentially tell a lot of stories: are the percentages stable across San Francisco, Marin, Alameda, Contra Costa… Napa… out to Inyo, for instance?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:43 pmsophmom says:
PTC,
I saw your comment earlier, and it has been at the back of my mind for much of the day. I have yet to contact my dear, (and recently married in Ca.), gay friends, to offer my support. I am hoping the right words will come.
It is no small tragedy, that the results of this election provides such a joyful win… and simultaneously, such a disappointing loss, for many of Obama’s most passionate supporters. And even worse, that the reason for that loss, might be somewhat attributable to the larger outpouring of the black vote.
I haven’t had time to wrap my head around it, but I agree with Ken, that Prop 8 was very badly framed. As well, hispanics came out in record numbers, and I am sure their vote played a huge part in the outcome.
And while many of us are celebrating what has been gained, and the progress we’ve made, we also need to recognize how much further we have to go, how much work remains to be done.
November 6th, 2008 at 12:24 amsophmom says:
PTC, Ken,
If it weren’t for Mono County, one might conclude that the ’sea air of the north’ had something to do with the final outcome of Prop 8.
San Diego and Orange County are known for having a largely different ‘climate’ from the rest of CA. I am somewhat surprised that LA did not end up predominantly NO, and this must be where the black and hispanic vote tipped the scale.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0
November 6th, 2008 at 12:19 pmlgeorge says:
Is the situation with gay marriage safe in Massachusetts or might it, too, be overturned? I did not follow this and don’t know how (meaning what path: referendum, judicial decision, or legislation) the Commonwealth came to sanction same-sex marriages.
What’s the news on other jurisdictions’ recognizing these unions? Is there any news on what will happen with the 18,000 or so California marriages that were performed before the referendum? Maybe someone would be kind enough to point me to a good general information website that would answer these and similar questions. Thank you.
November 6th, 2008 at 12:29 pmsophmom says:
Larry,
From Andrew Sullivan’s site, here is something to chew on. I would bet he will continue to cover the story and provide interesting links.
November 6th, 2008 at 12:51 pmLarry George says:
Thanks, SM. Interesting. California will almost certainly be litigated on at least one ground, then.
But what of Massachusetts?
November 6th, 2008 at 1:10 pmAnon '89er says:
What of Massachusetts? Nothing. With less than half the population in favor of ending gay marriage, I doubt the issue will come up again.
As for California, strategies for response are still being worked out. There seem to be some technical challenges being planned, on the theory that article 8 was really a revision, needing a supermajority, rather than an amendment which only needs a majority. See the first serious discuss at Volokh.com.
It sounds like a stretch to me, but it appears to give enough cover for the California Supreme Court to throw out the amendment if it sees fit to do so.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:03 pmLarry George says:
Anyone have a read on the California Supreme Court on this sort of issue?
What a mess.
Thanks for the information on Massachusetts. I was beginning to worry that the lights were going out, one by one.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:46 pmhwc says:
Didn’t the Democratic “leadership” send Donny McClurkin in to round up votes supporting gay marriage in the black community?
It’s almost hard to imagine that the Democratic “leadership” couldn’t influence the black vote in California to support a bedrock Democratic Party cause.
It’s almost lihe the Democratic “leadership” voted “present” on this one.
November 6th, 2008 at 5:33 pmJeffZ says:
First, not sure when supporting gay marriage became a bedrock democratic cause (I wish it was, but as of now it is not, they’d rather the topic simply never come up as it riles up the right way too much).
Second, nice to see that HWC has not abandoned his bile. Remember, folks, this was an unabashed supporter of Sarah Palin, who claimed that any and all critique on her was grounded purely in sexism. I need say no more about his credibility on any topic related to this election.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:19 pmfrank uible says:
Ain’t politics uplifting?
November 6th, 2008 at 6:27 pmhwc says:
Are you saying that the Democratic Party “leadership” supported the ban on gay marriage in California and that’s why it won?
Or that the Democratic “leadership” opposed the measure, but was incapable of influencing the vote?
November 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pmJeffZ says:
Neither.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:08 pmsophmom says:
hwc:
You come off particularly foolish dissing Democratic leadership at this point in time.
It might behoove you, and your party, to push that platter of sour grapes aside and practice a little introspection. And one of the questions you can start with, might be why so many voters who are conservative enough to vote for a ban on gay marriage, still voted the Dem ticket.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:18 pmRonit says:
hwc – even if progress on social issus like gay marriage is slow and uncertain, it does take place… eventually, after many fits and starts, gays will have the full civil rights accorded to other Americans. Change will come.
In the meantime, you will still have to deal with looking at yourself in the mirror each morning. Good luck with that.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:40 pmhwc says:
What party do you think that is?
November 6th, 2008 at 10:30 pmsophmom says:
“What party do you think that is?”
The one you so vehemently supported. The one that called our President elect everything but his name. The one that had as its supporters, all those hateful ignoramuses that wished him dead. The one that chose Sarah Palin, (who in turn encouraged the vitriolic fervor of those supporters). And ultimately, the one that (very soundly) lost (thank the lord).
But by all means, hwc, if you changed your mind, and/or are now having second thoughts, more power to you. It might just mean you have some sense after all.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:04 pmfrank uible says:
Relax, partisan righties! It is over, and your side won.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:52 pmPTC says:
The gay community is organizing against the Mormons who funded and pushed the initiative. I suppose some demographics are always going to support his kind of thing.. but without funding, it would not even be an issue. Probly a smart retaliation……
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mario-ruiz/gays-hit-back-at-mormons_b_142001.html
It is all about the money.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:07 pmPTC says:
I know one thing, it is not going to be a great year for tourism in Utah!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081108/ap_on_re_us/mormon_backlash_boycott
November 8th, 2008 at 10:09 amPTC says:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/07/20081107mormon-backlash1107-ON.html
November 8th, 2008 at 10:13 amsophmom says:
“And this from the church whose leader, Hinckley, said not two weeks ago on Larry King Live! that the Mormons do not get involved with politics.”
Oct. 1998
Apparently, the Mormons have been up to these shenanigans for quite a while. Alaska, notwithstanding, the Larry King connection is interesting…considering his wife is a Mormon.
November 9th, 2008 at 12:20 amfrank uible says:
Sophmom, how do you keep track of these biographical tidbits?
November 9th, 2008 at 12:41 amsophmom says:
Oh, Frank…I dearly wish I could keep track…at least as well as you do to your glorious memories of frat life.
For me, I am perhaps a bit more curious about this matter because of my gay friends who are fighting a setback tooth and nail.
The other thing is, this election was an ‘anomaly pizza’ that will go down in history…and the fact that Obama was elected, while the gay marriage ban was passed, was one slice of it.
November 9th, 2008 at 12:57 amRonit says:
This anti-Mormon/anti-Utah retaliation is the stupidest f*cking move ever. It is short-sighted, convinces absolutely no one who doesn’t already agree with you, and does nothing productive except satisfy self-indulgent outrage.
You’d think liberals might have learnt something about politics from the Obama campaign, which studiously avoided any self-indulgence or short-sightedness, and which, in the face of non-stop ignorance and bigotry, continued to reach out to voters, one by one, and make its case in a calm, confident way. If we want to establish the sanctity of marriage once and for all for gay couples, that is only going to happen with patience, a positive campaign to convince voters, and a willingness to play a long game. This is a temporary setback, and it would be unbelievably stupid to attack any community (blacks, Mormons, etc.) that failed to support marriage this time around.
November 9th, 2008 at 2:03 amLarry George says:
Agree with Ronit. Of course, if the Mormons as a group offend you, spend your vacation dollars elsewhere (but thereby eschew opportunities for intentionally reaching out to persuade people). I think the Berkshires or your home region (a “staycation”) could certainly use your vacation $$. Or what about a volunteering vacation in a place like the Gulf Coast that needs our help desperately?
November 9th, 2008 at 3:21 amsophmom says:
Very good point, Ronit…about learning from the Obama campaign.
Larry, considering the economy, I think staycations will be the thing anyway.
November 9th, 2008 at 4:34 amPTC says:
Obama is a poltician and a member of a political party. This is an outside interest group, non partisan, retaliating with economy against a group that used money to take away their rights. Not the same thing. Not “liberal” either.
One thing for sure, Markos does not get involved unless he thinks it has teeth. When the head of a corporation uses his resources to influence a major poltical vote, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the people using their ability to organize and boycott. Free country my friend. Nothing stupid about it.
November 9th, 2008 at 8:32 amPTC says:
What people learned from Obama is that when you organize and put resources towards a cause you believe in, you can make things happen. If anything, the lessons from the Obama campaign support this action.
November 9th, 2008 at 8:34 amRonit says:
PTC – if that’s all they’ve learnt, they haven’t been paying attention.
November 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm