Thu 30 Apr 2009
Professor Michael Brown kindly provided this update on the Stetson-Sawyer project.
I’d been hoping to update the Stetson-Sawyer website but decided that it made sense to wait until the 100 percent drawings are delivered by the architects and the library gets re-priced. If the new estimates come in significantly under earlier ones, that would be good news that might accelerate the project–but it’s a longshot, even given the recession-driven rollback in the cost of labor and materials. The college has definitely modeled the impact of borrowing money to move the project forward, but for obvious reasons there has got to be continued improvement in the markets before the additional principal/debt service costs can be justified.
Code changes aren’t likely to hurt us unless the delay continues for several more years. I’m more worried about the risks of leaving Stetson empty for much more than two years. Empty buildings are notoriously difficult to police for leaks, etc. So I worry about damage to historic finishes over time.
Some wildly inaccurate things were said on Ephblog about the library project in posts a while back. No, Stetson cannot be reoccupied for any purpose without millions of dollars in code compliance costs and renovations, to say nothing of dealing with the impact of asbestos removal, now completed, in the 1950s-era stacks addition. It therefore makes no sense to do anything to the building until we’re ready to build the library. The notion that going electronic saves libraries vast sums of money is a canard, or at least a gross oversimplification. There are some economies associated with going electronic with serials (journals), but the picture with reference works and monographs is more complicated, especially since publishers sometimes charge more for electronic copies than paper ones. People forget that storing mission-critical electronic records requires constant data migration, backups, and software upgrades, all of which are expensive. Then there is the question of Chapin’s rare books and the Archive’s countless documents, which will have to be stored somewhere for the foreseeable future. So the construction of the offsite shelving facility was a smart move for holding down costs; cost per square foot is, I believe, less than 40 percent of the cost of on-campus library space, although you also have to consider staffing and transport costs, etc. The library has also gone deeply into sharing books with regional institutions via its ILL program.
Sawyer is the most heavily used building at the college in terms of daily visitors. If in the future Williams needs less space for books, that will allow the college to open more space for student seating, collaborative study spaces, IT resources, and the like. The library design was intentionally made generic enough to allow for repurposing much of the building’s space in the future. In my view, the risk that the new library, as designed, is too small is still somewhat greater than the risk that it’s too big, although this is admittedly a minority opinion among those involved in the project.
Comments:
1) Thanks to Professor Brown for this comprehensive update. In general, the College underestimates how much of a demand their is for more detailed information from the community of Ephs. Kudos to Professor Brown for taking the time to keep us informed. If only other Williams faculty/officials were so accommodating . . .
2) I can’t speak for all the proponents of “going electronic,” but I was not suggesting that Williams itself build and maintain an electronic repository of books and journal articles. That would be stupid! And I certainly believe Professor Brown when he claims that it would be very expensive. Instead I (and, I think, all the other Ephs pushing this “canard”) are merely recommending that Williams make use of the efforts of other institutions. There are still fees involved, but I think (corrections welcome) that these charges are orders of magnitude lower than the costs of the College doing things itself.
Consider JSTOR, the premier on-line repository of academic journals. For a school like Williams, it costs around $3,000 per year. It’s an amazing resource. There is not a reason in the world for Williams to store a hard copy issue of any journal in JSTOR. Throw it all away. (Or, if you want to be safe, stick those old issues in some warehouse off-campus.) But the whole idea that Williams needs all these physical copies in the center of campus, when only a trivial number of students would even consider looking for a hard copy when the virtual version is available, is absurd.
Consider a book like The Game of Life. Just three years ago, there was no easy way to link to the story of the 1996 ought-to-have-been-Champions Williams women’s lacrosse team. Now, there is. Does Williams need to maintain a physical copy of books that appear for free on-line? No.
Now, of course, there are a lot of messy details to work out. The Chapin rare books and College Archives will need to be maintained by Williams. But 90% (at least) of the books and journals that sit in Sawyer right now do not need to be in the middle of campus. Get rid of them.
4) From the start, I think that I have been the most public critic of the entire Stetson-Sawyer project. You can be sure that, if the College knew 4 years ago what it knows now about its actual wealth, the plans would be very different. But that is spilt milk. Given the work that has already been done, what should the College do now?
Hard to say. The current Sawyer in between Schapiro Hall and YOUR-NAME-HERE Hall is a mess. Walking between those building is like being in a big city. It sure would be nice to get rid of Sawyer. And, I think, the costs of demolishing Sawyer are not that large. (True?) If so, I would like Sawyer to go and then see the amount spent on reconstructing Stetson cut in half, mainly by not expanding its current size. Is that realistic? I have no idea. It could be that, given building codes and what not, the College has no choice but to finish the project, more or less as designed.
Yet if I were a trustee on the campus construction committee, I would want to push on that point. Just how much would it cost to tear down Sawyer and do nothing to Stetson but the minimum necessary to get it up to code? Even in its current configuration, it is easy to imagine plenty of shared and solo study space, the primary purpose of a college library in this day and age anyway. Even better, all the office space would provide room for staff/materials from buildings like Jenness, Rice and Hardy, thereby allowing those structures to be used for student (co-op) housing, an excellent idea which was mentioned by Lizzy Brickley ’10 and Mike Tcheyan ’10 in their successful campaign for the College Council co-Presidency.
5) Is the College really considering taking on more debt? That would be bad. Leverage kills and Williams, with $260 million in debt, is already leveraged enough. I could imagine issuing some new debt while retiring old borrowing, but increasing the total indebtedness in the middle of the worst recession in several generations is a bad idea. Finish Stetson-Sawyer by all means. Just pay cash.
6) Handy collection of links and background on the project here.
Thanks again to Professor Brown for taking the time and trouble to keep us posted.
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22 Responses to “Stetson-Sawyer Update”
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JeffZ says:
Thanks so much, Professor Brown. Some interesting new info and interesting food for thought; please keep us updated. The campus is going to be so sweet once Sawyer is finally gone and that quagmire is replaced by a beautiful quad in the middle of campus, I hope the project is not postponed for TOO much longer. It certainly has to be built eventually, and the money will have to be spent now or in the future, so I don’t see point in delaying for that much longer — especially when there is not much competition for construction services and materials, so presumably it is a good time to build from that perspective.
I guess I fall in between you and DK on this one: I think that, from a long term perspective, the library should be designed with the idea that, in 10-20 years, there will be a lot less need for physical space for books. That being said, the existing structure is still nowhere near big enough when it has to accomodate (1) the Chapin Rare Books collection (something that definitely should be maintained), (2) at least some amount of hard-copy collections for the foreseeable future, (3) a technology center to enable ample room to work with new electronic resources, and (4) more and better study space than Sawyer currently has (one of the big complaints about Sawyer). I don’t agree with DAvid that Stetson in its current configuration is nearly large enough to accomplish those goals; but I also hope that, in determining the final size of the structure, the college thinks hard about what libraries’ needs will be 20-30 years from now and beyond, not just 5-10 years from now. Because there can be no doubt that, eventually, a large portion of the collection will be available electronically. I am happy about the off-site storage which certainly decreases the size requirements of the new facility. that was smart planning.
JeffZ says:
Oh, and no matter what, I am glad to hear that the facility is being designed with maximum flexibility in mind — once again, that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps eventually one floor can turn into a peformance space, or extra group study space, or additional classrooms, or a massive teleconference center, or who knows what else technology will enable / require, but the key is, whatever space is reserved for just stacks of non-Chapin collection books, a good portion of that should be able to be readily adapted to other uses.
Suz says:
Hooray for Prof. Brown, an actually well-versed person about library-related things.
And sometimes you need to call a canard a canard.
Steve Wollkind '01 says:
I’m as big a forward looking proponent of technology as anyone, but Dave, I have to disagree with you on some of your points, and my main disagreement revolved around ownership.
Relying on external resources means that you are relying on many things outside of your control. Why keep a copy of a book that is now free online? Because there’s no promise that it will be available forever. Why keep a hard copy of something electronic? Because your eyes will always be able to read the hard copy, but accessing today’s electronic media for 10 years, let alone 100, seems not to be a sure thing, to me.
And let’s not forget about the coming apocalypse. Once the end times reach us and there is no more electricity, having relied on remote digital resources will surely look like folly.
Ronit says:
Yeah, it would be one thing if the ebooks and journals were stored on Williams’ own servers, with secure offsite backups, in multiple different formats (this could be undertaken but would be a costly project). I would never substitute a contract with an external company like JSTOR or Google for a library – what happens if they go out of business?
sophmom says:
^^^Say it ain’t so^^^
Thanks for the update Prof. Brown. I always enjoy your posts because they usually provide the double pleasure of inspiring Jeff’s wonderful comments about campus architecture.
It is so interesting to think that the day might come when the books in libraries are more “atmosphere” than anything else…a quaint reminder of what used to be.
And speaking of the rare books, I think that seeing and touching some of that collection has been one of the single most impressive, and most pleasurable of Williams experiences for my son…
…at least that he has shared with me. ;-)
Larry George says:
Thanks from me, too, Prof. Brown.
I was there when they built Sawyer. It grieves me that it became outmoded in one generation. It is a wise investment to be planing for a facility that will not become outmoded in such a short time and that is flexibly configured. I just hope it will be big enough.
Joining the choir: relying on electronic materials owned by someone else would, in most cases, be folly. Not only may the owner vanish or fail to continue to make the material available, but (probably as likely), there would be no protection from possible price gouging (or even prohibitive but necessary fees for its continued provision of the servers, back-up systems, and so). Google and some of the services are free or low-cost now, funded by endowments, gifts, advertising, or profitable sister business functions, but haven’t we learned anything from this rather dizzying multi-front global downslide we are in?
Suz says:
Dear other Ephblog users/readers:
Do *not* try arguing with David about library stuff. It is folly, since, in the common vernacular, he “talks out of his ass.”
But yes Steve and Larry, you are correct. Being completely reliant on other institutions/companies for access to materials is a really, really bad thing for Williams to do.
oh five says:
Reading a book, even if merely a skim for a quick quote for a final paper, is one of life’s profoundest enjoyments, where the reader gets to hold knowledge in his or her hands and grapple with it or let it soak in.
I agree that all institutions, whether for profit or not for profit should be run with the utmost efficiency, and this would indicate embracing, to a certain (but definitely not anywhere close to entire) extent electronic material–such as journals and possibly dissertation books/monographs that are quite tedious to read anyway.
Yet, as a college and a purveyor of knowledge and the love of knowledge, keeping an expansive treasure trove of fine scholarship suitable for the study of almost any topic is key. As key is letting that knowledge be enjoyed, whether in the great hall of the new library or on Baxter lawn, and the best way I see that being done now and far into the future, is in a bound book.
Michael F. Brown says:
I don’t need to reply to Dave’s off-the-wall claims because the rest of you have done such a great job–for which you have my admiration and thanks. Dave’s JSTOR example it particularly misguided because JSTOR is a not-for-profit organization, a rarity in an industry famous for its rapacity (think: Elsevier). There are few free lunches in the world of electronic publishing.
What hasn’t been discussed is how Sawyer measures up (or doesn’t) to the libraries of the institutions that we see as our peers and competitors. I’ve visited a lot of college libraries in the past decade, and increasingly Sawyer is an embarrassment, especially when contrasted with the quality of other Williams facilities. How do we explain to prospective students that the campus’s single most important building, its main library, is so inadequate?
The current economic crisis changes things significantly, and the college is proceeding with great prudence, as it must. Stetson-Sawyer has been undertaken with a level of consultation and fiscal discipline unprecedented at Williams. I’m confident that we’ll reach our goal eventually, although no actions will be taken that imperil the institution’s economic health, which is obviously everyone’s first priority.
sophmom says:
Isn’t it funny how we have one discussion that is about a purported over-abundance of books, and how to get them off the shelves, and another thread that is about making up for a lack of them, and filling shelves?
I say, let this thread be the impetus to provide the pleasure of books for the Pine Ridge kids…”now and far into the future.”
Vermando '05 says:
I’ll just add myself as a +1 thanking Professor Brown and disagreeing respectfully with David.
Vermando '05 says:
To clarify with something that just came to my mind, the only model I can think of for abandoning a large portion of a printed library is law firms, which have vastly downsized their law libraries and now rely mostly on electronic resources. This could happen with undergraduate institutions, but I have two reasons for thinking this is not likely to happen any time soon:
1) The electronic resources have mostly replaced the very standard case guides, e.g., the publications of the federal and state cases and statutes for the jurisdiction the firm is in. They have not replaced the more esoteric stuff. This is fine insofar as 99.9% of practicing law is based on this generic corpus of material.
This is not fine insofar as research requires less generic material. So, legal academic institutions still find it necessary to maintain enormously extensive paper collections of older and rarer materials. As well, even firms with specialized practice areas, such as international arbitration find it necessary to do so.
I don’t think this change will likely happen soon at undergraduate institutions because the undergraduate academic model is more like the second group than the first. There is a small corpus of shared general knowledge, and so there are good electronic versions of Plato’s Republic, etc. However, as Mark Taylor reminded us last week, a large portion of academic research – and of the Sawyer collection – is in much more esoteric areas for which there are not suitable electronic substitutes. This brings me to my second point,
2) The electronic resources we have really aren’t that great. Law firms only migrated when really world class electronic resources became available. Mainly, from what I understand, this occurred when Lexis began to push the envelope and made electronic research far superior to print based because of how much legal research is focused on very specific issues and words of art and the ability of an electronic database to search for those.
I love Google Books, but it’s not there yet. I don’t think it will get there until it or a competitor really tries to become a major profit-making machine and starts to push the envelope in a way that makes electronic academic research laughably superior to paper-based. It’s good, and I use it for a lot of things, but it’s not there yet – when I find on it a book that I’ll really use a lot, I invariably get it in hard copy.
Maybe the situation will be different a decade from now, but I don’t see it being wise to migrate anytime in the near future (next 5 yrs). Pushing to electronic books right now would be like pushing entirely to electronic lectures right now – it seems like it should work, but the technology’s not actually there yet, so if you’re selling a premium product, you don’t want to do it.
David Kane says:
This discussion is going to be a lot more productive if people are clear about what they disagree with.
1) I am not sure that Professor Brown and I disagree. I never claimed that all electronic sources are cheap or that companies like Elsevier are not rapacious. My point was that right now (?) the College keeps thousands (?) of old journals on the shelves of Sawyer (things like American Economic Review, Journal of the American Statistical Association and so on) that are available via JSTOR (or cheap sources like JSTOR). The College can either throw away those journals or stick them in a warehouse off campus. They don’t need to go into the new Stetson, so the new Stetson can be smaller and cheaper.
The same applies to the thousands (soon to be millions) of books that are available on-line. Does anyone dispute those claims?
2) At first, I thought that some of the comments above were jokes. People are seriously worried that information (meaning the contents of published books and journals) might become more expensive and less ubiquitous in the future? That’s absurd. Just what mechanism do you propose would cause such a thing? What examples of something like that happening can you point to over the last 20 years?
Or maybe your right! Right now, almost all Williams students and faculty make extensive use of Google. It is a critical part of every researchers tool kit. I know it is free now, but who knows what the future will bring? So, the College should hedge the risk that Google starts charging for, uh, Google by building its own search engine. That way we are safe!
Keeping our own special purple colored copies of things like, say, old journals or the Congressional Record makes as much sense as building our own search engine.
3) It is not clear to me that my position is so far out of the mainstream. Right now, there are X books/journals stored at Sawyer. Under the new plan, there will be Y stored in Stetson (and Z stored off campus). (It is not clear to me if Y is bigger or smaller than X.) I just think that, instead of Y items in the new Stetson, we only need Y/2 or Y/10 or something. What do others think? Do you believe that Y must be at least X? What about the new books being published right now? Are you going to throw those out? Or do you believe that Y must be equal to (at least in terms of potential) to 2*X or 10*X?
How many items should there be space for in the new Stetson relative to the number of items in Sawyer today? (If Professor Brown could give us the planned numbers, that would be helpful.)
4) I am suspicious of the capacity of the new Stetson for two reasons.
a) I think that students today use these items in the flesh much less than students 2 years ago, much less 5 years ago. And the trend is accelerating. Of my 8 interns last summer (not all Williams), only 1 had been to the library to check out a physical book/journal article. If it is not on-line, it does not exist for them.
Now, my interns are not a random sample of Williams/Harvard students, but isn’t this a very common attitude among students today? Perhaps our student readers could help us out?
b) Even if you ignore a), we still have the issue of Williams newly constrained finances. Assume that we were all on the Stetson-Sawyer committee three years ago, trying to do what was best for Williams. Assume that we agree (as many of us would have) with the choices made then. Well, those choices were still made in the context of an overall budget, designed with the $1.9 billion endowment in mind. If, 3 years ago, Williams had been 5 times more wealthy, you can be sure that the Stetson-Sawyer Committee would have been given a much larger budget and they would have used it.
And the same holds in reverse. If, 3 years ago, the endowment had been $1.3 billion, the budget (and the plans) would have been much more modest.
My second point is that we are now living through that second counter-factual. Williams is poorer then we thought it was going to be back in 2006, so we should (if at all possible) scale back the plans. One way to do so is to store fewer books/journals on campus.
hwc says:
Can’t they just put a Donald Trump overhang on Sawyer and call it a day? Just make it match Pareskey.
JG says:
I shouldn’t engage the absurdity, but I just can’t get over that. You specifically state that you have NO idea how much anyone plans to store in the new library (Y), but you still want less. Seriously? Was it a soft landing when you fell down the rabbit hole?
rory says:
for the second time , JG, he’s falling down this same rabbit hole for the second time. Personally, I’d rather plan for the worst (digitizing not being as wildly successful a replacement as David assumes) than the best (90% of our library is unnecessary!). I’m sure that, in 25 years when this digitizing is wildly successful, the college can find a use for all this space. But I wouldn’t want to build my new library with that assumption about digitizing already in place.
Ronit says:
Well, that seems ridiculous and anecdotal, but at least it’s part of an empirical claim!
You’re making progress, David.
I wonder if Williams Libraries has been monitoring the total volume of books checked out to see if there’s any recognizable drop-off. Maybe relevant data might be available from some other sources – NYPL perhaps?
Vermando '05 says:
“If it is not on-line, it does not exist for them.”
Didn’t Ronit mention the other day that one shouldn’t develop bad habits in college?
On the merits, yes, David, I think you will eventually be correct if you are willing to make your claim small enough. Is there something that can be thrown out because of digitization? Almost certainly. And I hope and trust that our crack team of professional librarians is engaged with that.
That’s a far cry, though from:
Do I think we can get rid of anywhere close to 90% of our books? No. That was supposed to be the relevance of my point about even law firms finding it necessary to keep the obscure and old stuff in hard copy.
Perhaps we can do more today with journals with JSTOR, but for books I think Rory’s right – 15 years hence perhaps the Google books of the future will be able to substitute for a well-stocked academic library. Today, in both its selection and its functionality it falls short.
I say this having done a fair amount of academic research the last two years, and I suspect the same is true for Rory.
To your credit, you ended the sentence I quoted above with these words bespeaking caution:
Obviously none of us can be certain, but most of us are skeptical enough that we don’t think we should be basing any major cost-savings projections on it. Of course, we could be wrong. However, I’m pretty familiar with the resources out there and haven’t seen anything to make me think that I am.
So, while I admire your eternal willingness to question and push what can sometimes be an extraordinarily conservative culture, I don’t have any reason to think that you’re onto something here. You may be right to recommend that we keep our eyes open, and perhaps even to send a friendly e-mail to one of our librarians inquiring about it. Anything more, though, seems like rank speculation, and certainly bold short-term recommendations and projections based on it seem unjustified.
Suz says:
Ronit,
Most libraries have means of collection built into their general management/circulation data. They can also monitor online usage and the like, which is what I expect they’re doing. There has been a fair amount of this kind of research at other institutions by other librarians/library science faculty, and there is the Association of College and Research Libraries, part of the American Library Association (it also has a blog, if you’re really, really that interested: http://acrlog.org/)
It would be interesting to compare institutions of similar sizes to see the difference in book usage depending on how much money the colleges have for online book/journal access.
Suz '05 *MLS* says:
OK, time to whip out the library-fu (now that I have that handy set of letters after my name meaning I’m a real live librarian.
First major point: students in the humanities continue to use books. Overwhelmingly. Lots and lots of books. Having conducted a survey on how students at UNC conduct research in their Art History 101 class, most of them don’t use google and instead choose to use books from the library for their research.
If I’m not enough of an authentic source for you, there is: Head, A. (2008). Information Literacy from the Trenches: How Do Humanities and Social Science Majors Conduct Academic Research? College and Research Libraries, 69(5). 427-445.
Head confirms that upper-level undergraduates also make use of books and journals because they know that’s what their professors expect.
Students still continue to use a large number of books. How much, I can’t say, as I don’t have access to the usage statistics. Since people still use them, it doesn’t make sense to put them all in off-site storage.
Other things David brings up: The same applies to the thousands (soon to be millions) of books that are available on-line.
The average life span of a website is 2 years, and then it’s gone. It is inherently problematic to rely on the web to keep things available. One of the major jobs of librarians is to *keep* things available by preserving them. To get rid of resources that you already have in favor of resources that you can’t guarantee. (EG, UNC trusts that they can get rid of certain books that Duke already has because they trust that Duke will not go under, will not start charging them for use, and Duke’s librarians are doing the best they can to preserve the books that exist.)
Most of the books currently available online are through Google Books or the Internet Archive, or they’re in the hands of Ebrary and the like, proprietary companies. The problem is, Google books could decide to start charging at any time, or ebrary could fail. That means that you’re SOOL if you threw out your copies of important books.
David, they can do the same thing that Elsevere did with science journals: since they have the rights to the most prominent journals in the field, Elsevere can ask whatever prices they want. The result has been exponential growth, to the point where Elsevere’s subscription fee would be larger than the entire operating budget of UNC. All of it.
Because scholars need books and articles for their scholarship, they will do anything in their power to obtain them. So the library is forced to buy these overpriced products whether they want to or not.
Books are incredibly easy to take care of. You keep them on their sides at 50 degrees and they’ll last for 200 years, plus. Maintaining books(and printed journals) is a cheap and easy way to maintain the resources vs. digitizing them. With digitizing, you not only need the funds and staff at start up, but you also need someone to make sure the back end works, including search functions, data migration and interface design. This is difficult to do at a small school like Williams.
Okay, end rant.
Parent '12 says:
Suz- Congratulations on completing your degree!
With the books vs. on-line source of information, I don’t know if anyone has pointed out that a lot of inspiration for writing comes from browsing in a library.
I’ve done searches for relevant material, using specialized search engines. When I would go to the shelf to find a book or bound collection of journals, I often would accidentally find other worthwhile articles to read. Some of these were enjoyable procrastination.. Others led to unexpected paths that benefitted my work.