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	<title>Comments on: Specialization Consternation</title>
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	<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/</link>
	<description>All Things Eph</description>
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		<title>By: Will Slack '11</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70584</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Slack '11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70584</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-70556&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Parent &#039;12&lt;/a&gt;: I declared Political Economy at the end of sophomore year, and will be also getting a Leadership Studies concentration.

As for advising, I haven&#039;t really had any yet, as I had to choose my classes for the fall right around major time. I&#039;ve yet to meet a major adviser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-70556" rel="nofollow">Parent &#8216;12</a>: I declared Political Economy at the end of sophomore year, and will be also getting a Leadership Studies concentration.</p>
<p>As for advising, I haven&#8217;t really had any yet, as I had to choose my classes for the fall right around major time. I&#8217;ve yet to meet a major adviser.</p>
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		<title>By: ebaek</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70566</link>
		<dc:creator>ebaek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70566</guid>
		<description>On the flip side, a lot of the frosh feel that Williams almost requires all students to explore the three division, which is a source of stress for students who are very talented in one area but not so experienced or confident in another.

And as an added note, a wise senior told me, during the course of the First Days, &quot;We have 36 classes to take for four years, and only 9 courses required to complete a major. There&#039;s always room to explore more topics.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the flip side, a lot of the frosh feel that Williams almost requires all students to explore the three division, which is a source of stress for students who are very talented in one area but not so experienced or confident in another.</p>
<p>And as an added note, a wise senior told me, during the course of the First Days, &#8220;We have 36 classes to take for four years, and only 9 courses required to complete a major. There&#8217;s always room to explore more topics.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Parent '12</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70556</link>
		<dc:creator>Parent '12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70556</guid>
		<description>Ronit-  Thanks for finding the link.  I just finished re-reading it (before seeing your summary).

Jr. Mom (aka Soph Mom), it was a great post &amp; discussion! 
(btw, I noticed that the moniker of the post changed from SM to JrM).

So far, it looks as if parents are interested / concerned about this topic.  I know for me it relates to questions about Williams academic advisement before a student declares a major.

And, Will-  Now that you&#039;re a junior, when did you declare a major?  And, related to my concern about advisement.  Has there been a difference in the advice (quality &amp; quantity) about academics before &amp; after declaring your major.  
[I hope this doesn&#039;t go too far off your post&#039;s topic.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronit-  Thanks for finding the link.  I just finished re-reading it (before seeing your summary).</p>
<p>Jr. Mom (aka Soph Mom), it was a great post &amp; discussion!<br />
(btw, I noticed that the moniker of the post changed from SM to JrM).</p>
<p>So far, it looks as if parents are interested / concerned about this topic.  I know for me it relates to questions about Williams academic advisement before a student declares a major.</p>
<p>And, Will-  Now that you&#8217;re a junior, when did you declare a major?  And, related to my concern about advisement.  Has there been a difference in the advice (quality &amp; quantity) about academics before &amp; after declaring your major.<br />
[I hope this doesn't go too far off your post's topic.]</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70555</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70555</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-70553&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ronit&lt;/a&gt;: 

I remembered the discussion, but completely forgot that I authored the post. Sheesh.
Thanks for the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-70553" rel="nofollow">Ronit</a>: </p>
<p>I remembered the discussion, but completely forgot that I authored the post. Sheesh.<br />
Thanks for the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70553</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70553</guid>
		<description>Previous discussion, with several good comments on the double major issue:

http://www.ephblog.com/2008/11/15/major-decisions/

Extracts:

&lt;strong&gt;Ronit&lt;/strong&gt;: Double majoring... restricts your freedom to explore and is usually a waste of time.

&lt;strong&gt;eph &#039;07&lt;/strong&gt;: I think Ronit’s right about double majoring, though. I double majored in a language because I had so study abroad credit and it only required a couple of extra courses, but in your junior or senior year the flexibility to take a couple courses in new areas of interest might be worth more than that extra word on the diploma. Sometimes I think Williams students double major and add concentrations so often because we can’t have minors and we want to look more accomplished, which can be hard to admit because it sounds so silly. If your son thinks of two possible majors in terms of “primary” and “secondary,” rather than being unable to choose between them, no need to major in the secondary one.

&lt;strong&gt;JPS&lt;/strong&gt;: Do not double major!

&lt;strong&gt;Jonathan &#039;05&lt;/strong&gt;: Ditto on double majoring. Even if you don’t have to sacrifice much to do it, doing so is pointless, valueless. I did ENGL-PSYC for the reason others described; I had sort of just found that I was already taking those classes and wanted to keep doing so. It also felt like less of a decision, less limiting, and thus more attractive. This is an illusion. The decision did not require sacrifice from me until senior fall, when I was one required class away from finishing PSYC but found that its only slot was in conflict with an ENGL course and a botany course I wanted to take. That was an awful few weeks, and while the knowledge I gained in PSYC helps me to this day, the fact that I took the ninth class and got the major never has, and never will.

Let this nugget of truth I most centrally believe about college guide your son: your liberal arts education is not about girding yourself with any credential. It is about thoughtfully becoming the person you are.

The professional world, peers and family, and, on bad days, your own ruminating mind will make the choice of a major feel important, perhaps dire. For this reason alone you should think about it until you can explain your reason to yourself, but only to be ready to answer those questions well enough that they don’t upset you any more than minimally necessary.

&lt;strong&gt;Alexander Woo&lt;/strong&gt;: I don’t think it’s a bad idea to sign up for a double major. But I agree you should definitely drop one if there’s some other course you’d rather take. I wish I had.
&lt;hr&gt;

(Personally, I&#039;m also reminded of Robert Dalzell&#039;s framing it thusly - we have 32 golden tickets at Williams. Think about what you are using each of those tickets for. Don&#039;t waste any of them. In my opinion, not a single golden ticket is worth using to fulfill major requirements unless you are really, truly passionate about the subject. The extra word on your diploma is meaningless.)&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Previous discussion, with several good comments on the double major issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ephblog.com/2008/11/15/major-decisions/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ephblog.com/2008/11/15/major-decisions/</a></p>
<p>Extracts:</p>
<p><strong>Ronit</strong>: Double majoring&#8230; restricts your freedom to explore and is usually a waste of time.</p>
<p><strong>eph &#8216;07</strong>: I think Ronit’s right about double majoring, though. I double majored in a language because I had so study abroad credit and it only required a couple of extra courses, but in your junior or senior year the flexibility to take a couple courses in new areas of interest might be worth more than that extra word on the diploma. Sometimes I think Williams students double major and add concentrations so often because we can’t have minors and we want to look more accomplished, which can be hard to admit because it sounds so silly. If your son thinks of two possible majors in terms of “primary” and “secondary,” rather than being unable to choose between them, no need to major in the secondary one.</p>
<p><strong>JPS</strong>: Do not double major!</p>
<p><strong>Jonathan &#8216;05</strong>: Ditto on double majoring. Even if you don’t have to sacrifice much to do it, doing so is pointless, valueless. I did ENGL-PSYC for the reason others described; I had sort of just found that I was already taking those classes and wanted to keep doing so. It also felt like less of a decision, less limiting, and thus more attractive. This is an illusion. The decision did not require sacrifice from me until senior fall, when I was one required class away from finishing PSYC but found that its only slot was in conflict with an ENGL course and a botany course I wanted to take. That was an awful few weeks, and while the knowledge I gained in PSYC helps me to this day, the fact that I took the ninth class and got the major never has, and never will.</p>
<p>Let this nugget of truth I most centrally believe about college guide your son: your liberal arts education is not about girding yourself with any credential. It is about thoughtfully becoming the person you are.</p>
<p>The professional world, peers and family, and, on bad days, your own ruminating mind will make the choice of a major feel important, perhaps dire. For this reason alone you should think about it until you can explain your reason to yourself, but only to be ready to answer those questions well enough that they don’t upset you any more than minimally necessary.</p>
<p><strong>Alexander Woo</strong>: I don’t think it’s a bad idea to sign up for a double major. But I agree you should definitely drop one if there’s some other course you’d rather take. I wish I had.</p>
<hr />
<p>(Personally, I&#8217;m also reminded of Robert Dalzell&#8217;s framing it thusly &#8211; we have 32 golden tickets at Williams. Think about what you are using each of those tickets for. Don&#8217;t waste any of them. In my opinion, not a single golden ticket is worth using to fulfill major requirements unless you are really, truly passionate about the subject. The extra word on your diploma is meaningless.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70552</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-70547&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jr. Mom&lt;/a&gt;: Yeah, I fell for that &quot;but I have most of the credits for a second major anyway&quot; trap. I regretted it in senior year when I had to take boring courses on monetary theory instead of the stuff I really wanted to study before heading out of Williams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-70547" rel="nofollow">Jr. Mom</a>: Yeah, I fell for that &#8220;but I have most of the credits for a second major anyway&#8221; trap. I regretted it in senior year when I had to take boring courses on monetary theory instead of the stuff I really wanted to study before heading out of Williams.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Slack '11</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70551</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Slack '11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70551</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-70543&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Professor Crane&lt;/a&gt;: Agreed.

For me, I could never understand why someone would want to further restrict their educational options by forcing themselves to go through two tracks. That is, unless the two majors are very different from each other; in that case, I can understand wanting to show ability in two different areas, (IE Math/Philosophy)

If you have the credits anyway, though, there&#039;s nothing harming you if you do do it. I just don&#039;t understand people (and yes, they exist here), who double major because it looks better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-70543" rel="nofollow">Professor Crane</a>: Agreed.</p>
<p>For me, I could never understand why someone would want to further restrict their educational options by forcing themselves to go through two tracks. That is, unless the two majors are very different from each other; in that case, I can understand wanting to show ability in two different areas, (IE Math/Philosophy)</p>
<p>If you have the credits anyway, though, there&#8217;s nothing harming you if you do do it. I just don&#8217;t understand people (and yes, they exist here), who double major because it looks better.</p>
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		<title>By: JeffZ</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70548</link>
		<dc:creator>JeffZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70548</guid>
		<description>I double majored, as did many of my friends.  I don&#039;t think any of us had any major regrets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I double majored, as did many of my friends.  I don&#8217;t think any of us had any major regrets.</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70547</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70547</guid>
		<description>Sam and Ronit,

Why do you recommend against a double major? This came up before in a thread, and when I mentioned it to my son, his response was that he hadn&#039;t started out with that in mind, but as turns out he will have the credits anyway...

*P &#039;12, we cross-posted! Parents curious about the same thing, it seems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam and Ronit,</p>
<p>Why do you recommend against a double major? This came up before in a thread, and when I mentioned it to my son, his response was that he hadn&#8217;t started out with that in mind, but as turns out he will have the credits anyway&#8230;</p>
<p>*P &#8216;12, we cross-posted! Parents curious about the same thing, it seems.</p>
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		<title>By: Parent '12</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70546</link>
		<dc:creator>Parent '12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70546</guid>
		<description>Sam &amp; Ronit, and other faculty &amp; alumni-  

Could you both revisit why the recommendation not to double major at Williams.  There could be current students thinking about this.

In the context of this post, is it simply that starting with the goal of completing a double major constrains acquiring as Will put it, a broad-based education.  Or, is there more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam &amp; Ronit, and other faculty &amp; alumni-  </p>
<p>Could you both revisit why the recommendation not to double major at Williams.  There could be current students thinking about this.</p>
<p>In the context of this post, is it simply that starting with the goal of completing a double major constrains acquiring as Will put it, a broad-based education.  Or, is there more?</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70544</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70544</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-70543&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;blockquote&gt;
Don’t double major&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-70543" rel="nofollow">Sam</a>:<br />
<blockquote>
Don’t double major</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70543</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70543</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t double major....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t double major&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Chotch</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/09/21/specialization-consternation/#comment-70541</link>
		<dc:creator>Chotch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=21922#comment-70541</guid>
		<description>If you major and do a thesis in a subject you are devoting about 11 classes to that subject, only a third of your classes are in your major. If you choose to focus only on your major senior year that is really your own doing. Even if you double major you still have about a class and a half per semester to pursue interests outside your major.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you major and do a thesis in a subject you are devoting about 11 classes to that subject, only a third of your classes are in your major. If you choose to focus only on your major senior year that is really your own doing. Even if you double major you still have about a class and a half per semester to pursue interests outside your major.</p>
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