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	<title>Comments on: Students on Moore</title>
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	<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/</link>
	<description>All Things Eph</description>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74953</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74953</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74952&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ronit&lt;/a&gt;: 

I believe you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74952" rel="nofollow">Ronit</a>: </p>
<p>I believe you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74952</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74952</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74950&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jr. Mom&lt;/a&gt;: The descriptions of Moore&#039;s teaching in this thread made me genuinely sad. I may have been snarky about some bad visiting professors I&#039;d had earlier, but I never saw anything as disgraceful as what has been described here.

Feel free to offer me a hanky, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74950" rel="nofollow">Jr. Mom</a>: The descriptions of Moore&#8217;s teaching in this thread made me genuinely sad. I may have been snarky about some bad visiting professors I&#8217;d had earlier, but I never saw anything as disgraceful as what has been described here.</p>
<p>Feel free to offer me a hanky, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74950</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74950</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74945&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hwc&lt;/a&gt;: 

Need a hankie to catch your drool?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74945" rel="nofollow">hwc</a>: </p>
<p>Need a hankie to catch your drool?</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74945</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74945</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not only did he use his blackberry in class, but while we were giving our presentations on the inane glorified book reports, he would be on his blackberry and completely ignoring anything students said. One specific instance, he got a call, and got up and left, without saying a word, during the presentation. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

That just makes me cry. That&#039;s not what Williams is about. That&#039;s not what Williams students deserve. That&#039;s not what Williams&#039; parents pay $50,000 year to receive.

I&#039;m still reeling at the reference to &quot;book reports&quot;. That&#039;s not what Williams is about either.

Of course, with $465,000 in unpaid credit card bills and a US Attorney breathing down his neck, he was probably a wee bit distracted!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not only did he use his blackberry in class, but while we were giving our presentations on the inane glorified book reports, he would be on his blackberry and completely ignoring anything students said. One specific instance, he got a call, and got up and left, without saying a word, during the presentation. </p></blockquote>
<p>That just makes me cry. That&#8217;s not what Williams is about. That&#8217;s not what Williams students deserve. That&#8217;s not what Williams&#8217; parents pay $50,000 year to receive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still reeling at the reference to &#8220;book reports&#8221;. That&#8217;s not what Williams is about either.</p>
<p>Of course, with $465,000 in unpaid credit card bills and a US Attorney breathing down his neck, he was probably a wee bit distracted!</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74942</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74942</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74938&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Will Slack &#039;11&lt;/a&gt;: 

I very much respect your intentions and your vigilance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74938" rel="nofollow">Will Slack &#8216;11</a>: </p>
<p>I very much respect your intentions and your vigilance.</p>
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		<title>By: jeffz</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74940</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74940</guid>
		<description>Politico chimes in:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29428.html

Interesting that he was able to organize a symposium of sorts that makes his symposiums at Williams seem like small potatoes.  This isn&#039;t just some typical Congressional staffer; far from it.  He either has very unusual connections or very unusual ability to convince people in high places that his events were worth attending.  It seems like Williams and the victims of his financial fraud were but a few of those seduced by whatever quality he had that made his b.s. ring true / seem appealing.  To me, the biggest lesson here is that classroom performance (combined with publication record, certainly) does not lie.  I am all for (generally speaking, not in this particular case) hiring people who may be a little unorthodox in their backgrounds, to broaden the Williams experience.  While the hiring here was, in hindsight, a mistake, Williams is at least in good company in making that mistake.  But at the very least, those more experimental hires should be VERY closely watched, and it is indeed mind-boggling that he was kept on after his first year of teaching exposed his utter lack of substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politico chimes in:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29428.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29428.html</a></p>
<p>Interesting that he was able to organize a symposium of sorts that makes his symposiums at Williams seem like small potatoes.  This isn&#8217;t just some typical Congressional staffer; far from it.  He either has very unusual connections or very unusual ability to convince people in high places that his events were worth attending.  It seems like Williams and the victims of his financial fraud were but a few of those seduced by whatever quality he had that made his b.s. ring true / seem appealing.  To me, the biggest lesson here is that classroom performance (combined with publication record, certainly) does not lie.  I am all for (generally speaking, not in this particular case) hiring people who may be a little unorthodox in their backgrounds, to broaden the Williams experience.  While the hiring here was, in hindsight, a mistake, Williams is at least in good company in making that mistake.  But at the very least, those more experimental hires should be VERY closely watched, and it is indeed mind-boggling that he was kept on after his first year of teaching exposed his utter lack of substance.</p>
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		<title>By: PSCImajor</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74939</link>
		<dc:creator>PSCImajor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74939</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74928&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hwc&lt;/a&gt;: Not only did he use his blackberry in class, but while we were giving our presentations on the inane glorified book reports, he would be on his blackberry and completely ignoring anything students said. One specific instance, he got a call, and got up and left, without saying a word, during the presentation. Obscene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74928" rel="nofollow">hwc</a>: Not only did he use his blackberry in class, but while we were giving our presentations on the inane glorified book reports, he would be on his blackberry and completely ignoring anything students said. One specific instance, he got a call, and got up and left, without saying a word, during the presentation. Obscene.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Slack '11</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74938</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Slack '11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74938</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74937&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jr. Mom&lt;/a&gt;: I couldn&#039;t continue to post here without some glimmer of hope.....

What I would really be interested to see if an analysis of the legal history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74937" rel="nofollow">Jr. Mom</a>: I couldn&#8217;t continue to post here without some glimmer of hope&#8230;..</p>
<p>What I would really be interested to see if an analysis of the legal history.</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74937</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74937</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I only ask that any/all speculation be withheld.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Heh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I only ask that any/all speculation be withheld.</p></blockquote>
<p>Heh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Will Slack '11</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74935</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Slack '11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74935</guid>
		<description>Yeah; that first thing didn&#039;t come off as I intended. I&#039;m worried that meritless allegations from Dave will undermine the very legitimate questions that could be raised. But I retract any suggestion that Dave shouldn&#039;t look at this; I only ask that any/all speculation be withheld.

Or, in other words, [citation needed].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah; that first thing didn&#8217;t come off as I intended. I&#8217;m worried that meritless allegations from Dave will undermine the very legitimate questions that could be raised. But I retract any suggestion that Dave shouldn&#8217;t look at this; I only ask that any/all speculation be withheld.</p>
<p>Or, in other words, [citation needed].</p>
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		<title>By: midprof</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74933</link>
		<dc:creator>midprof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74933</guid>
		<description>When I was hired for visiting positions (15 years ago), there was no contract until you&#039;d at least gotten official transcripts in.  It&#039;s hard to see how that was finessed.  Many institutions today also run credit checks on new faculty hires.  

Concerning the lack of clear response from profs who were &quot;told of&quot; this situation, you have to consider that you didn&#039;t see their entire reaction.  They may well have gone to a dean about it.  They may well have been concerned themselves.  They&#039;re not about to have a chat with you about this disastrous appointment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was hired for visiting positions (15 years ago), there was no contract until you&#8217;d at least gotten official transcripts in.  It&#8217;s hard to see how that was finessed.  Many institutions today also run credit checks on new faculty hires.  </p>
<p>Concerning the lack of clear response from profs who were &#8220;told of&#8221; this situation, you have to consider that you didn&#8217;t see their entire reaction.  They may well have gone to a dean about it.  They may well have been concerned themselves.  They&#8217;re not about to have a chat with you about this disastrous appointment.</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74928</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74928</guid>
		<description>He used his Blackberry in class?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He used his Blackberry in class?</p>
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		<title>By: JT</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74922</link>
		<dc:creator>JT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74922</guid>
		<description>I took his class in the Spring last year. I only took it because it looked like it might be relevant to my post Williams life. I agree with Emma on this one. He was completely inept, and the entire class would often make fun of him before and after class. I remember that specific instance in which he said &quot;This is a judicial politics class,&quot; as if he expected us to learn from some sort of osmosis. I routinely kept track of the amount of times he was on his blackberry during class. I assigned 1 point for each time he was checking it/typing away on it and 2 points for every 30 seconds he was talking to someone. I still have the notebook in which he once got 20 points on that rudimentary scale. This should point to the complete lack of meaningful discussion and teaching. Everyone I talked to wrote scathing reviews of his performance, and absolutely nobody respected him as a teacher. He had no lesson plan, and the amount of laptops that students brought to class increased exponentially as the semester progressed. Obviously they were just doing crosswords, playing boggle, and watching youtube videos. It was quite obvious he was only kept around for his connections to the political world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took his class in the Spring last year. I only took it because it looked like it might be relevant to my post Williams life. I agree with Emma on this one. He was completely inept, and the entire class would often make fun of him before and after class. I remember that specific instance in which he said &#8220;This is a judicial politics class,&#8221; as if he expected us to learn from some sort of osmosis. I routinely kept track of the amount of times he was on his blackberry during class. I assigned 1 point for each time he was checking it/typing away on it and 2 points for every 30 seconds he was talking to someone. I still have the notebook in which he once got 20 points on that rudimentary scale. This should point to the complete lack of meaningful discussion and teaching. Everyone I talked to wrote scathing reviews of his performance, and absolutely nobody respected him as a teacher. He had no lesson plan, and the amount of laptops that students brought to class increased exponentially as the semester progressed. Obviously they were just doing crosswords, playing boggle, and watching youtube videos. It was quite obvious he was only kept around for his connections to the political world.</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74912</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74912</guid>
		<description>31: Ken, thanks. I see your point. There are several potential &quot;witchhunts&quot; here. I have little interest in witchhunting the felon. Although, to be honest, less than four years in prison for an $800,000 heist seems a bit light to me.

I am more concerned about the process that led to his hiring at Williams. Was the Political Science department in favor of his hiring? Was the Provost in favor of  his hiring? Or were they overruled and by whom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>31: Ken, thanks. I see your point. There are several potential &#8220;witchhunts&#8221; here. I have little interest in witchhunting the felon. Although, to be honest, less than four years in prison for an $800,000 heist seems a bit light to me.</p>
<p>I am more concerned about the process that led to his hiring at Williams. Was the Political Science department in favor of his hiring? Was the Provost in favor of  his hiring? Or were they overruled and by whom?</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74910</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74910</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74887&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;kthomas&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;blockquote&gt;Let’s not engaging in witchhunting for its own sake and the pleasures of the hunt; give the Truth time to come out; let’s bother to form an informed opinion before we speak.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed. Also, I am fairly sure that the students who are reporting their firsthand experience of his teaching are in a good position to provide an informed opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74887" rel="nofollow">kthomas</a>:<br />
<blockquote>Let’s not engaging in witchhunting for its own sake and the pleasures of the hunt; give the Truth time to come out; let’s bother to form an informed opinion before we speak.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed. Also, I am fairly sure that the students who are reporting their firsthand experience of his teaching are in a good position to provide an informed opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74908</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74908</guid>
		<description>hwc:  read again.  I didn&#039;t say &quot;it may be possible that A is true.&quot;  I said A,  B,  and C.   The statement has nothing to do with A by itself;  restraint!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hwc:  read again.  I didn&#8217;t say &#8220;it may be possible that A is true.&#8221;  I said A,  B,  and C.   The statement has nothing to do with A by itself;  restraint!</p>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74906</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74906</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74901&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jr. Mom&lt;/a&gt;:  LOL.  Are you bringing the tar,  or the feathers?  I&#039;ve got the noose and the white sheets.  David,  you&#039;re grandmaster this .... decade,  right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74901" rel="nofollow">Jr. Mom</a>:  LOL.  Are you bringing the tar,  or the feathers?  I&#8217;ve got the noose and the white sheets.  David,  you&#8217;re grandmaster this &#8230;. decade,  right?</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74903</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74903</guid>
		<description>ken:

The guy has just pled guilty to fraud totaling over $800,000. A second offense after serving jail time for a previous conviction on similar charges. He has acknowledged that he lied about his academic qualifications. I think we can go a little bit further than saying &quot;it may be possible that Moore should never have been hired.&quot; I think that is pretty much a statement of fact at this point.

There may be perfectly reasonable explanations of how Williams was duped by this con man. I can&#039;t conceive of anything that would permit us to conclude, knowing what we know now, that he should have been hired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ken:</p>
<p>The guy has just pled guilty to fraud totaling over $800,000. A second offense after serving jail time for a previous conviction on similar charges. He has acknowledged that he lied about his academic qualifications. I think we can go a little bit further than saying &#8220;it may be possible that Moore should never have been hired.&#8221; I think that is pretty much a statement of fact at this point.</p>
<p>There may be perfectly reasonable explanations of how Williams was duped by this con man. I can&#8217;t conceive of anything that would permit us to conclude, knowing what we know now, that he should have been hired.</p>
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		<title>By: Jr. Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74901</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;and that a witchhunt/scapegoating/kick the man who is down, is occurring.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

https://www.msu.edu/~holekamp/images/crocuta/HyenaFeedingFrenzy_Engh_smaller.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>and that a witchhunt/scapegoating/kick the man who is down, is occurring.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="https://www.msu.edu/~holekamp/images/crocuta/HyenaFeedingFrenzy_Engh_smaller.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://www.msu.edu/~holekamp/images/crocuta/HyenaFeedingFrenzy_Engh_smaller.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74897</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74897</guid>
		<description>hwc:

My retort would be,  all of which may be true-- but we may still &quot;have a witchhunt.&quot;

As to Ronit&#039;s claim... well,  I did create a dichotomy (which runs the usual threat of being false)... and I&#039;ve just said enough on another thread.

It may be possible that Moore should never have been hired and is guilty of moral turpidude etc,  and that the hiring and oversight process is broken,  and that a witchhunt/scapegoating/kick the man who is down,  is occurring.

In fact,  I rather think that all three are occurring,  and are &quot;part in parcel&quot; of each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hwc:</p>
<p>My retort would be,  all of which may be true&#8211; but we may still &#8220;have a witchhunt.&#8221;</p>
<p>As to Ronit&#8217;s claim&#8230; well,  I did create a dichotomy (which runs the usual threat of being false)&#8230; and I&#8217;ve just said enough on another thread.</p>
<p>It may be possible that Moore should never have been hired and is guilty of moral turpidude etc,  and that the hiring and oversight process is broken,  and that a witchhunt/scapegoating/kick the man who is down,  is occurring.</p>
<p>In fact,  I rather think that all three are occurring,  and are &#8220;part in parcel&#8221; of each other.</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74893</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74893</guid>
		<description>kthomas:

I think we have enough information about his academic credentials, teaching experience, and professional life to question what made him even remotely qualified to be hired as a professor at one of the top colleges in the United States.

And, that&#039;s before we consider that he is a con-man, convicted felon, who didn&#039;t even have a college degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kthomas:</p>
<p>I think we have enough information about his academic credentials, teaching experience, and professional life to question what made him even remotely qualified to be hired as a professor at one of the top colleges in the United States.</p>
<p>And, that&#8217;s before we consider that he is a con-man, convicted felon, who didn&#8217;t even have a college degree.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74891</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74891</guid>
		<description>And to anyone who is getting ready to attack me for lacking evidence of my claim above, I admit I have none other than my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to anyone who is getting ready to attack me for lacking evidence of my claim above, I admit I have none other than my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74889</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74889</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74887&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;kthomas&lt;/a&gt;: I don&#039;t pretend to any kind of general expertise on the topic of faculty hiring at Williams or in academia generally, but my experience tells me that the hiring of short-term visiting professors is one of the (admittedly few) things at Williams that is very broken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74887" rel="nofollow">kthomas</a>: I don&#8217;t pretend to any kind of general expertise on the topic of faculty hiring at Williams or in academia generally, but my experience tells me that the hiring of short-term visiting professors is one of the (admittedly few) things at Williams that is very broken.</p>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74887</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74887</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  On topic,  I really don&#039;t have enough information to say I have an opinion.  &quot;Moral qualification&quot; aside (I believe in it),  I don&#039;t have the detail of information necessary to an opinion on the prima facie issue.  Should Williams suspend a professor who pleads guilty to any felony?

On the issue of teaching:  I hope we&#039;re not hitting someone when their down.  Williams&#039; standards-- I also believe in Williams&#039; standards-- but in grad school,  &quot;didn&#039;t follow the syllabus&quot; to the point of &quot;I don&#039;t have any idea what the reading is supposed to be this week,  or what the lecture is going to be about&quot; was the norm at greater than 80%.  (Maybe Berkeley is Berkeley;  maybe Berkeley at the time had particular problems;  maybe Williams is unlikely to hire the kind of professor Berkeley produced;  and certainly I&#039;m attacking Berkeley).

So:  in my unclear sort of path:  I&#039;m saying that if Moore was as bad a teacher as some are claiming -- what the heck is going on at Williams??? -- but-- how far is Williamstown from Salem?

Let&#039;s not engaging in witchhunting for its own sake and the pleasures of the hunt;  give the Truth time to come out;  let&#039;s bother to form an informed opinion before we speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  On topic,  I really don&#8217;t have enough information to say I have an opinion.  &#8220;Moral qualification&#8221; aside (I believe in it),  I don&#8217;t have the detail of information necessary to an opinion on the prima facie issue.  Should Williams suspend a professor who pleads guilty to any felony?</p>
<p>On the issue of teaching:  I hope we&#8217;re not hitting someone when their down.  Williams&#8217; standards&#8211; I also believe in Williams&#8217; standards&#8211; but in grad school,  &#8220;didn&#8217;t follow the syllabus&#8221; to the point of &#8220;I don&#8217;t have any idea what the reading is supposed to be this week,  or what the lecture is going to be about&#8221; was the norm at greater than 80%.  (Maybe Berkeley is Berkeley;  maybe Berkeley at the time had particular problems;  maybe Williams is unlikely to hire the kind of professor Berkeley produced;  and certainly I&#8217;m attacking Berkeley).</p>
<p>So:  in my unclear sort of path:  I&#8217;m saying that if Moore was as bad a teacher as some are claiming &#8212; what the heck is going on at Williams??? &#8212; but&#8211; how far is Williamstown from Salem?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not engaging in witchhunting for its own sake and the pleasures of the hunt;  give the Truth time to come out;  let&#8217;s bother to form an informed opinion before we speak.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74885</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74885</guid>
		<description>The wso thread continues to produce interesting comments. I am adding them here since wso threads sometimes disappear.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
* Emma Davenport

I check Factrack and he&#039;s not on there. Had he been on it, I probably wouldn&#039;t have taken a class with him because I always check it. Also, I should add that a group of students (four in a class of 16 or so) in my class almost went to the chair of the department to complain about the COMPLETE absence of teaching and critical discussion or lecture in that class. Why didn&#039;t we talk to the Chair? Because we were all stressed out with finals and packing up to leave in the spring, and the idea fell through.

Those who like them think he&#039;s a &quot;nice guy&quot;, &quot;has connections&quot;, and &quot;gives all straight A&#039;s&quot;. No one takes him - who knows him - because they think they can learn in his classes. Anyway, I would the majority of the class thought it was a joke. But I know I&#039;m the only one speaking here, so it&#039;s not really fair for me to state that on here.

Why wasn&#039;t he on factrack anyway? Who has to add a prof on factrack?

Thanks for the cheers Cameron. ;-) 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
* Rhassan Hill

Emma,speak for yourself please,thanks. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
* Maria Tucker

What, you didn&#039;t get an A? If nothing else, the College at least should have noticed that an entire class received A&#039;s in this course and taken some sort of action, unless poli-sci professors routinely hand out grades like candy. (Why did no one tell me? jk) But seriously, I&#039;ve never had him, yet judging from the reviews I&#039;ve read so far he was hired by Williams for his connections, not his exceptional qualities as an educator. No PhD, no bachelor&#039;s--and he&#039;s only a staffer? What was he doing teaching at Williams? I mean, unless you&#039;re looking quality instruction on how to schmooze your way to Washington...oh wait, maybe that is useful for poli-sci...

Anyway, this is absurd. And I mean both our corrupt government and that Williams would hire this mess. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
* Cameron Nutting
   
Would you seriously argue that you got your money&#039;s worth out of that class last Spring? That Moore led the class responsibility? Followed the syllabus? Had any intellectual goals for our class or encouraged any intellectual engagement with the material? That he graded (or even read) our papers to anything close to a Williams standard? I understand that he has become something of a mentor to some students (perhaps yourself included) but to say that he was anything like a quality TEACHER is a pretty difficult argument to make. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
* Jennifer Ewing

emma can speak for me too. i was in the con law class last semester, and i skipped more than half the time because he never bothered to learn my name. still got an a. when i was there, he had no idea what was going on (&quot;is someone presenting today?&quot;) and either talked about his grand political experiences or what he thought about certain supreme court decisions. i now feel extra justified in saying that the course was a waste of time and money.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wso thread continues to produce interesting comments. I am adding them here since wso threads sometimes disappear.</p>
<blockquote><p>
* Emma Davenport</p>
<p>I check Factrack and he&#8217;s not on there. Had he been on it, I probably wouldn&#8217;t have taken a class with him because I always check it. Also, I should add that a group of students (four in a class of 16 or so) in my class almost went to the chair of the department to complain about the COMPLETE absence of teaching and critical discussion or lecture in that class. Why didn&#8217;t we talk to the Chair? Because we were all stressed out with finals and packing up to leave in the spring, and the idea fell through.</p>
<p>Those who like them think he&#8217;s a &#8220;nice guy&#8221;, &#8220;has connections&#8221;, and &#8220;gives all straight A&#8217;s&#8221;. No one takes him &#8211; who knows him &#8211; because they think they can learn in his classes. Anyway, I would the majority of the class thought it was a joke. But I know I&#8217;m the only one speaking here, so it&#8217;s not really fair for me to state that on here.</p>
<p>Why wasn&#8217;t he on factrack anyway? Who has to add a prof on factrack?</p>
<p>Thanks for the cheers Cameron. ;-)
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
* Rhassan Hill</p>
<p>Emma,speak for yourself please,thanks.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
* Maria Tucker</p>
<p>What, you didn&#8217;t get an A? If nothing else, the College at least should have noticed that an entire class received A&#8217;s in this course and taken some sort of action, unless poli-sci professors routinely hand out grades like candy. (Why did no one tell me? jk) But seriously, I&#8217;ve never had him, yet judging from the reviews I&#8217;ve read so far he was hired by Williams for his connections, not his exceptional qualities as an educator. No PhD, no bachelor&#8217;s&#8211;and he&#8217;s only a staffer? What was he doing teaching at Williams? I mean, unless you&#8217;re looking quality instruction on how to schmooze your way to Washington&#8230;oh wait, maybe that is useful for poli-sci&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway, this is absurd. And I mean both our corrupt government and that Williams would hire this mess.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
* Cameron Nutting</p>
<p>Would you seriously argue that you got your money&#8217;s worth out of that class last Spring? That Moore led the class responsibility? Followed the syllabus? Had any intellectual goals for our class or encouraged any intellectual engagement with the material? That he graded (or even read) our papers to anything close to a Williams standard? I understand that he has become something of a mentor to some students (perhaps yourself included) but to say that he was anything like a quality TEACHER is a pretty difficult argument to make.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
* Jennifer Ewing</p>
<p>emma can speak for me too. i was in the con law class last semester, and i skipped more than half the time because he never bothered to learn my name. still got an a. when i was there, he had no idea what was going on (&#8220;is someone presenting today?&#8221;) and either talked about his grand political experiences or what he thought about certain supreme court decisions. i now feel extra justified in saying that the course was a waste of time and money.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74878</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74878</guid>
		<description>This is a test of the Record, too.

Most disturbing are the reports from the classroom on &quot;Moore&#039;s&quot; teaching performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a test of the Record, too.</p>
<p>Most disturbing are the reports from the classroom on &#8220;Moore&#8217;s&#8221; teaching performance.</p>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74877</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74877</guid>
		<description>Will,

I hate to (be the one to) say this given some of the current  dynamics on eB.  Let me put it this way:  I think most alumni here have the experience that the Record has not or will not or cannot investigate such issues with any sort of ability or integrity (count-examples post-1965 welcome).  I would thus be glad if they did a good job,  whatever that is (I say sarcastically in the sense that no one here will agree on what that is;  but I do think that one is possible).

That said,  &quot;it is not the Record&#039;s job,&quot;  either.

((P.S.  This author did found and publish a Williams newsmagazine because of general sickness with the Record of the time,  so I claim less objectivity that my usual entire lack.  Perspective,  however,  is another thing.))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>I hate to (be the one to) say this given some of the current  dynamics on eB.  Let me put it this way:  I think most alumni here have the experience that the Record has not or will not or cannot investigate such issues with any sort of ability or integrity (count-examples post-1965 welcome).  I would thus be glad if they did a good job,  whatever that is (I say sarcastically in the sense that no one here will agree on what that is;  but I do think that one is possible).</p>
<p>That said,  &#8220;it is not the Record&#8217;s job,&#8221;  either.</p>
<p>((P.S.  This author did found and publish a Williams newsmagazine because of general sickness with the Record of the time,  so I claim less objectivity that my usual entire lack.  Perspective,  however,  is another thing.))</p>
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		<title>By: hwc</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74876</link>
		<dc:creator>hwc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74876</guid>
		<description>My money is on dkane beating the Record, Wagner, and the Board at putting together some of the pieces on this one.

I agree with Ben Fleming. The College is not in position to request that people &quot;hold off&quot; on this one. The College hired him.

Ben is also correct in being very concerned about the possibility that Moore got his  hands on the laptop with alumni social security numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My money is on dkane beating the Record, Wagner, and the Board at putting together some of the pieces on this one.</p>
<p>I agree with Ben Fleming. The College is not in position to request that people &#8220;hold off&#8221; on this one. The College hired him.</p>
<p>Ben is also correct in being very concerned about the possibility that Moore got his  hands on the laptop with alumni social security numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74871</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74871</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is not your job to investigate this. Please hold off, and trust me/the Record to ask these questions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is not your job to investigate this. Please hold off, and trust me/the Record to ask these questions.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronit</title>
		<link>http://www.ephblog.com/2009/11/11/students-on-moore/#comment-74870</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ephblog.com/?p=24421#comment-74870</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74867&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wslack&lt;/a&gt;: I think everyone who has an interest in Williams has the right to ask questions about Moore&#039;s hiring and his time at Williams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-74867" rel="nofollow">wslack</a>: I think everyone who has an interest in Williams has the right to ask questions about Moore&#8217;s hiring and his time at Williams.</p>
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